As much as I love YA epic fantasy, I have to admit it’s very rarely perfect.
It’s nothing personal, see, it’s just that I know what epic fantasy should be doing since (as queen) I know all the things. And after devouring hundreds of fantasy books every year, spending my youths in Narnia, and sometimes wearing a fluttering magical cape in the darkness — I am most definitely qualified * to talk about what the PERFECT epic fantasy would look like.
I’m going to focus on Young Adult epic fantasy because, mate, it has some holes.
And there’s nothing I like better than perfection (except, perhaps, for a particularly delicious chocolate mud cake) so let’s all sit down and talk about the art of writing the best epic fantasy of them all. **
YOU MIGHT ALSO LIKE…
* Ha haha HAHAHA HAHHA…okay fine. The only thing I’m “qualified” to do at this point is arrange books in colour-organisation because my First Aid certificate expired so I AIN’T QUALIFIED FOR ANYTHING. Although to be fair, I hate touching people and I am also Slytherin, so please don’t nearly die around me. I’d probably just watch.
** The obvious disclaimer is “this is just my opinion”…and I obviously it is not law. It will be however, probably next year when I rule the world. So I’m just sayin’ you can get used to it now if you want…
MUST BE CONCISE AND TELL THE STORY WITHOUT WAFFLING ALL OVER THE PLACE. ✓
I only have a few fears and they are (1) a world without cake, (2) somebody asking me to eat a lettuce, and (3) really really really loooooooong books. After 500 pages I just think we’ve gone into waffle territory.
And in case the term “waffling” isn’t highly used * what I mean is “extraneous rambling writing that needed to be cut out like yesterday.” Concise !! books !! are !! life !! And books that pay deep attention to not rambling on also have the pleasurable side-effect of having less-info-dumps or tedious dull scenes.
I just die a little inside at super mega-long fantasy books. Because there are ALWAYS some scenes as interesting as a dead cabbage. Also if you’re looking for some place to trim: try that super long TREK THROUGH THE FOREST fantasy’s looooove to do because I swear, if I have to read one more boring roadtrip I will hit someone with my plate.
* IT SHOULD BE. Waffles are a gift to this earth. Unless they’re an excuse for talking to much about boring things.
NO KEYBOARD SMASH NAMES. ✓
Look if I can’t pronounce it or spell it or remember it, there is a 500% chance I WILL NOT TALK ABOUT THIS BOOK. I get the cathartic appreciation of keyboard smashes. By all means! Hit that laptop of yours! Let those keys know you have passion and fury and the alphabet shalt not stand against you!
But don’t turn “AFLJDKSA’JFSKLA” into “Afly’la rin-Doklyunii” into the main character’s name.
Don’t you like your readers??? HAVE MERCY????
Also changing all vowels to “y” doesn’t make the name sound fantastical. It makes the name sound like it just got stabbed in the eye with a spork. I’m just saying Melissa being Mylyssya makes me see the bright white life of death.
NOT INTRODUCE 78 CHARACTERS ALL AT ONCE. ✓
Big casts are fine…IF YOU DON’T INTRODUCE ME TO EVERYONE ALL AT ONCE. You expect me to handle those keyboard smash names, then at LEAST feed me one character at a time. So I may chew my food. Or my people. Or…
Okay I am not a cannibal.
At least not on Tuesdays. *
Oh stop fussing.
I believe starting off a book with 3 characters in the opening scene is quite enough. Possibly four. Preferably two. You need to set tones, personalities, goals, and voices. Don’t hURT yourself. Go slow, dangit Jim. ** You’re telling a story, not a group chat.
* And it’s your LUCKY DAY because it’s Tuesday!! You get to live!!
** BOOM. Star Trek references. I hope you saw the nerdom there. I hope you appreciated I’m putting sci-fi into a post about epic fantasy and probably should be stopped now.
MUST HAVE WORLD BUILDING! WHEREFORE ART THOU, MY LOVE, MY WORLD BUILDING. ✓
This is my #1 complaint with YA epic fantasy, and I have mentioned it a few times. BECAUSE I’M PASSIONATE ABOUT THE PLANET. As long as it’s not my planet. My planet has issues and most of them are to do with humans. Ugh humans.
Anyhow.
It is vital to my life and happiness the good of all epic fantasies if they actually take a second to stop and give us an interesting and clearly defined world. It makes aaall the difference when I can SEE the world. AKA Ketterdam in Six of Crows is so visual for me. But yet take 2 seconds with Truthwitch and see that a tub of yogurt has more culture, mate.
GREAT WAYS TO BUILD CULTURE AND WORLD BUILDING:
- tell me about the economy (if everyone exports, say, chopped wood…you have a lot of visuals and effects to work with right there)
- the history
- who or what they worship + superstitions + myths or legends
- what kind of holidays they celebrate
- the weather
- which leads to what they wear
- the geography
- rules for the magic system
- the FOOD because nothing builds culture like talking about food
KILL SOMEONE OFF. OR MOST OF THEM. ALL OF THEM??? ✓
All I’m saying is that in a HIGH ACTION FANTASY WORLD where everyone is getting stabbed or dying of the flu, people need to get offed. When books start saving and coddling all the favourites…eh.
I want to panic okay? I want to be invested and care and be gnashing my teeth in hopeless desperation as people DIE.
I’m also a Slytherin and INTJ. It’s hard to tell.
SHOULD NOT RELY 100% ON OUR SOCIETY’S RULES, PREJUDICES, AND HISTORY. ✓
YOU’RE A FANASY. USE YOUR GOD GIVEN IMAGINATION.
I AM SO PASSIONATE ABOUT THIS I NEEDED TO YELL, OKAY? OKAY. I’M GOOD NOW. I’M DONE.
But seriously, I am so sick of reading about sexist epic fantasy worlds. Or worlds where there are the SAME rules and prejudices as our world. I mean why??? Why? How come we can have dragons, magical swords, prophecies, and telekinesis — but like LOL @ me for thinking we could have something other than a patriarchy or racism or homophobia. It’s ridiculous, okay?
I want to read a book where women DON’T have to prove themselves because no one has ever thought they couldn’t do something. I mean why would they??? What basis does this random fantasy society have for sexism?
And that goes for all types of diversity that our society squashes or is terrified of.
I CAME HERE TO FANTASY TO EXPERIENCE SOMETHING OUT-OF-THIS-WORLD.
I’M WAITING.
IF INFLUENCED BY REAL-LIFE CULTURES…DON’T APPROPRIATE. ✓
I don’t feel really qualified to talk about this one in depth…but it is important and needs to be said! I think “influence” and “appropriation” are different! But if you want to base your fantasy world on a pre-existing society that you don’t belong to — you need to a heck of a lot of research, talk to many people of that culture, and be very very careful.
It’s always disheartening to read, say, an Indian inspired fantasy and then to go onto Goodreads and see actual Indian reviewers saying “Well, if this isn’t super offensive…”
But the tricky part comes with: Okay so it’s FANTASY and not supposed to be 100% like the original…but where’s the line?
Hence I shall leave this one HERE. And we can all weep and then seek out advice from intelligent humans. Or google. Or, like, send pigeon to the stars. Be creative. Ask someone who knows.
AT LEAST 93 DRAGONS ON EVERY PAGE. ✓
I’m confused if a book is “fantasy” and has no dragons in it. Then it’s not FANTASY IS IT???? IT’S JUST A BUNDLED PAPERBACK TOME OF LIES. I hope you enjoy watching me cry like this.
Also dragons are usually the biggest “cliche” of fantasy and I NEVER SEE THEM AROUND!????? My dragon-shelf on Goodreads has like 14 books on it.
Fail me, world, why don’t you.
FANTASY FOOD. ALL OF IT. PROBABLY DOUBLE AS MUCH AS YOU THINK YOU NEED. ✓
Like I said, this is an A+ way to build a fantasy society’s culture! Plus it’s super interesting. You want to give me an infodump on what your army is doing? At least make them be having a freaking meal while they’re at it. They can chat about tactics to crawl over some dull mountain and I can be sitting there going, “YES, LET’S BRING OUT THE ROAST APPLES AND PECAN TRUFFLES WITH HONEY SAUCE RESTING IN A PLATE OF DELISH.”
No, don’t tell me to go read a cookbook. #rude
I’d just read cookbooks if they had more explosions and dragons in them too.
SAIL AWAY UPON THE BONNY SHIP OF DAWN FROM ALL TEDIOUS CLICHES. ✓
I think the reason epic fantasy cliches keep running RIOT IN THE STREETS is because everyone is just hanging out to make me cry. I mean, for goodness sakes, it’s not that hard to twist cliches?!? Let the dragon eat everyone and marry the princess. It’s NOT that hard. And the trouble with the super super tedious cliches is that the send a book from “ooh this is intriguing” to “omg I’ve read this so many times I know it better than my own middle name”.
SMALL LIST OF FANTASY CLICHES THAT NEED TO #NOPE:
- the chosen one
- oooh the protagonist has special powers and is a spweshul snowflake
- crazy mentor with bitter backstory who is secretly a smoosh
- trying to win the princess’ hand
- long roadtrip to find a magical locket / sword / book / teaspoon / bird cage / lasagna dish
- dreams…prophecies in dreams particularly
- prologues to show you what Evil That Does Not Sleep is doing..and to be honest, I always want to sleep
- scrawny orphan is like the king or wizard or shapeshifting pot-plant or something
- telepathic twins
- girls pretending to be boys for adventure
- instantly epic with weapons despite having seen them for only 34 seconds
- evil’s only motivation is to be evil
- really really really dumb adults so the fantastically rebellious children can do whatever
- siblings who don’t try to kill each other…because I mean. Realism please.
And the thing with cliches is they CAN be done right! Or differently! Or interestingly! I mean, A Gathering of Shadows (aka one of my favourite fantasy books…although it is Adult and not YA) has a WIZARD TOURNAMENT. Cliche? Yes. Written super well? Also yes. So don’t discount cliches, just make sure you’re doing them YOUR way.
Or should we say my way. Because we’ve established that’s the only way that matters. *
* I’m also ridiculously humble. I KNOW. People mention this all the time.
DRAGONS AND FOOD IT NEEDS NOTHING MORE! Ha Ha. And I would prefer not having 78 characters at all. 😉
THIS IS TRUE. Also never read Game of Thrones. 😂 Although to be fair GRRM keeps killing everyone off so the 78 characters don’t last very long.😂
Haha… winter is not coming for you, and you, and you, and you. XD
Lovely points Cait. I would cringe too if Melissa is written as Mylissa. Haha. And it irks me when there are so many characters. I loved Seraphina and I was so eager about the sequel, SHadowscale. Shadowscale turned out to be one of the worst books I have read because 18 characters had pseudonames + real names. That is 18*2=36 names. Oh My God! I was so disappointed but I would urge everyone to read Seraphina. It was amazing. And after that, forget there was a sequel written.
I felt the same as you about Schwab’s wizard tournament. In fact the book seemed like a Harry Potter meets Pirates of Caribbean for me. But I gave it a very high rating because it was well written and I enjoyed everything in it. As long as cliches do not become cringe worthy, we are good.
Aww, thanks, Resh! IT’s always weird when they try to “spice up” normal names right?! AND OMG TO SHADOWSCALE. I have that on my list to read (I loved Seraphina) but I’m already dead over so many names. I read a book where they changed names the older they got and that was bad enough. 😭😭
And agreed! When I first read AGOS I was like “really?!? Let the games begin???” but then I was absolute trash for it all and loved every minute.😂
I LOVE FANTASY! *ahem* Now that that’s out of the way, yes to this post! I don’t have a problem with cliches, provided they have a twist or unexpected point of view. They can be done right! (And also, really, really wrong in some cases…) World-building is a must for me, so I always try to incorporate a lot of it into my own writing. For some reason a lot of epic fantasies have practically no religions, or if they do, they all worship evil or nothing. I feel like that doesn’t represent the majority of religions in the world…? I could rant about this for a long time haha! 🙂
Love your post! 😀
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I LOVE FANTASY TOO. I THINK WE MIGHT HAVE GOOD TASTE, TBH.
And yes! Cliches and tropes aren’t “bad” in the black-and-white sense…they just need to be worked on. 😉 😂 And yes! I find more religions in adult fantasy compared to YA fantasy. And like that’s cool, I don’t mind so much. Except when they have a “religious-less” world and still swear by a god or something.😂 PLOT HOLE.
I totally agree with all of these, luckily I haven’t had to deal with most of them when reading YA fantasy. I do agree that there should be more world building and a lot more DRAGONS. Where are the dragons???? Even if there aren’t actual dragons then how about mythology of dragons?? there are so many of those in our world so why not in fantasy worlds too? I do think that YA fantasy is getting a lot better at being unique and different at least in premise, although there is still a fair way to go in terms of actually pulling these amazing concepts off.
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MORE DRAGONS. WE WANT ALL THE DRAGONS. *shrieks* To be honest, I also want dragons in contemporaries too. They’d be much more exciting, yes? :’)
I think there are some really GREAT YA fantasies out there!! I’m just picky because I love the genre so much.😂
Show me a YA Contemporary full of dragons, and I won’t be able to whip out my library card fast enough. Bring the magic to Main Street, somebody!
There is a cookbook writer by the name of Crescent Dragonwagon. True story. She wrote a most entertaining cookbook that even has unexpected death of a favorite character in it. Honest.
OOOH, NICE. That’s like my ultimate writing goal right there.😂
I really need to do some more worldbuilding for my wip! Thanks for the list of ideas! Also, I’m really happy my WIP does not have any of the cliche’s you mentioned haha that would be awkward. Althoughm the main characters do have magical powers (but come on MAGICC). They’re no special snowflakes /chosen ones though ^^
I always suck at world-building in my drafts too!😂It’s something I have to work on soooo much. And like cliches/tropes CAN be done well!! I maybe didn’t clarify that enough in the post?! I just think we have to be careful not to be complacent with them so the book sounds same-old. (I’m talking to myself here too.😂)
ooooh, yes I love those reasons. my perfect book would be:
looooooooong, to get fully immersed in!
a series, but with less than 8 books so mom doesn’t start to question.
lots of epic dragons! not anoying unhelpful ones.
a few evil dragons, to shake things up for the characters. >:D
NOT TO MANY DEATHS. unless i don’t like them, then fire away.
nice deep world building, like eragon.
a girl main character, because I relate to them easier.
a smol side dish of awkward adorable romance
interesting, beautiful names that aren’t similar to the other characters names.
not to much creepy dark stuff please. my mother will not be amused.
some magic way of healing so they don’t spend the whole book with a broken arm/leg/ankle
family
a happy ending!
I get about the first half in eragon, and a few in the second half, but eragon doesn’t have an altogether happy ending, so I’m fustrated, since I STILL want to know what will happen next. >:[
Most crazily, ~Olive
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EPIC DRAGONS IN ALL THE BOOKS I SAY! *cheers from the rooftops* I love open-endings or unhappy endings so I guess another reason I should read Eragon? 😉
YES READ ERAGON NOW.
ahem.
after so many nights of slipping downstairs to watch bits of psych, and asking and asking and asking, mom and dad finally started watching psych with me and my sister! so we actually get to sit on the couch, and watch the whole episode, instead of standing at the door and only seeing parts of it. so, yay for that! even though this is a bit of a conversation that went on the next day:
sister: I really like psych, but I had a short dream where a dead guy fell out of a closet.
me: I had a dream about lego ninja racing in mario kart.
we may possibly be diffrent species. XD
Most crazily, ~Olive
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Look I’m pretty sure I can only fit like 92 dragons on one page. #sorrynotsorry
BUT I am here for the Chosen One trope because otherwise why would there be a book about them? I would also like you to write a book about a trip to find a lasagna dish please and thank.
Now you’re just being cantankerous tbh.
And haha, I mean, tropes/cliches CAN be done well, obviously. (KELL.) But it’s just when it’s like “boom suddenly you’re the lost princess and SUPER good at weapons and everyone wants you and loves you” that really gets on my nerves.😂
Obviously the lasagna dish is featuring in my NaNo project.
Yes, yes, yes! Give me all of the dragons and the long-as-hell fantasy novels! Just don’t give me the same prejudices as our world because what iS THE PURPOSE OF THAT?!
It gets boring right?!? I want to see some DIFFERENT world rules!!
Haha xD this was sooo goood. I just loved the “spweshul snowflake” could just imagine me sis’s voice there making fun of my novel xD I was taking the “crazy mentor” sentance and doing this “____ mentor with ____ backstory who is secretly a ____” and just sticking in random adjectives to see what twists would develop and it was so much fun xD Try it. I really agree with you that people stay alive too long… I mean how many times has someone fallen off a cliff only to come back perfectly well!? Almost perfectly well… books need to feel dangerous like when I say,”nah the author would never put me through that” then the next chapter is all about that. That’s what I want xD
Anyway I haven’t cimmented before but I’m a Goodreads friend and I already think I said I’m a fan if yours xD
Lisa
thisinkwell.blogspot.com
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Oh those fake-deaths can be so annoying! hahha.😂I mean, sometimes I don’t mind because some characters are SUCH PRECIOUS CINNAMON CRUMPETS. <3 But it can feel like the book is just too "safe" and it's harder to get invested.
Aww, thanks so much for commenting Lisa!! WELCOME TO THE MADNESS OF MY BLOG! *slides you some cake*
LOL! I am actually currently writing an epic fantasy novel and I am so thankful that you wrote this post. Now my novel will be a Kate-pleaser (no, NOT a people-pleaser, mind you. A KATE-PLEASER which is the most important types of book of them all).
Also YES DRAGONS. Except mine aren’t gonna be supersized but more like little birdies (I mean, there are bigger birds so there shall be bigger dragons) and people shall keep some as pets and some may not. And the food. I’ll make sure to put at least one cake in the book because like I said: Kate-pleaser. 😉
Bahahaah!😂 I’m honoured! But make sure your epic fantasy is firstly an Anika-pleaser. 😉
I think the fantasy trope which bothers me most is the shallow fantasy world. Also I am really sick of Medieval european fantasy. JUST NO MORE (okay maybe some more). I think in some ways I prefer fantasy that is at least partially set in the ‘real’ world, because that forces the author to think of rules and explanations around the magic. I also like non-magical fantasy occasionally, like the winnder’s kiss. Cait, I think you’d like Tamora Pierce’s books. She has various series about girls confronting sexism in different ways; my favourite is Protector of the Smal. They are in a europeish sexist society, but it’s acknowledged. I think prejudices are really complicated and often hard to notice, and the whole ‘appropriation/inspired by thing is complicated.. Anyway, dragons are seriously the best thing since peanut butter and I love fantasy books with a rich environment, like the Pellinor series. SO MUCH YES.
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YES EXACTLY! I mean I love medieval-England fantasies just fine but I want something diiiiifferent. There’s a whole world out there and people have IMAGINATIONS! I want to see more of it!
So like urban fantasy right? I do love that too!!
And I actually have a confession…I thought I didn’t like Tamora Pierce because I confused her with Emily Rodda.😂😂 I KNOW. I CAN’T EVEN WITH ME EITHER. So I’m definitely going to try Tamora Pierce … when I eventually get myself a library card.😂
This is so wonderful because #YES. And that gif with the White Witch is PERFECT. That’s how I feel about characters in “epic fantasy”- is there some kind of special pass that keeps all incompetent young heroes from dying while all the mentors and extras fall around them?? Seriously?!?
Rant over. But *whispers* IT NEEDS FIXING.
I know right?!? It makes the stakes always seem low if the favourites are always surviving! Definitely won’t happen in my books..*cackles softly into the darkness* 😂
I love this post! I agree with a lot of these. Like, I’d love to have more books with smart adults and families that actually love each other and aren’t dysfunctional lumps of angst and loathing (or at least dysfunctional families that still love each other even though they’re a collective mess.) And better worldbuilding is excellent, and you can never go wrong with dragons.
I will confess that as I was reading this, I kept comparing my own books to what you were saying. I guarantee that none of them (except maybe one) would meet the Dark and Stabby and Deadly criterion, but honestly, I like stories where most people don’t die. But I think I’m doing ok on a lot of the others. (Except maybe the length, but I love long books, so I’m ok with that.) I am having a little trouble with the cultural appropriation thing in my current WIP, because it’s Asian-flavored fantasy and I’m not sure how much is too much? But I’m trying. (On that note, do you know of any good Asian-inspired fantasy I could read to see how others have done it?)
Regarding prejudices in fantasy: I think that it depends on what you define as prejudice. If you mean that a culture has specific gender roles, I have no problem with that. It makes sense. However, I would agree that making those roles conform exactly to those in our society or to those of Medieval Europe doesn’t always make sense. You have to think about the culture of your story and the culture the roles come from and figure out what makes sense. And some kind of gender prejudice may arise from that, at least in some characters, but it also might not. It ties in with worldbuilding, honestly, and with the human tendency to take things to extremes. That said, racial prejudice definitely doesn’t need to exist in most fantasy (and I try my best to avoid it in my books). And books with diverse cultures are definitely a lot most fun and interesting.
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The Eon duology by Alison Goodman is a great Asian inspired high fantasy! Apparently she got most of her information from Chinese and Japanese mythology, but it isn’t based off any one culture, so a lot of it is totally made up, too.
Oooh, thanks for the recommendation! I’ll look that up!
Dysfunctional but GOOD families would be nice!! That’s for sure!😂I mean, I get why fantasy lops off all the parents a lot and I do love our strong/brave orphans, buuut….it would be nice to see something different.
And aww, like I’m honoured you care about my opinions, but just remember I am nobody.😂 Your books just need to match YOUR criteria!!
I actually don’t have any Asian-inspired recommendations that aren’t written by white people. I definitely recommend, when you get to it, finding Asian betas and critique partners (or sensitivity readers!) to chat to about it! I honestly don’t knoooow anything. I wrote a Japanese-inspired fantasy (well, dystopian really?) but like I’m not sure if I was horribly problematic about it or not. So I think it’ll be one I bin for now.😂
And for the prejudices: often the ones in our world are DUE to something! Like a lot of sexism comes out of religion. So if the fantasy world doesn’t have the same religion, how are they having the same sexism? (And that’s just a small example, not an all-encompassing one!)
You aren’t nobody, though! You’re a potential reader of my books, and you’re someone who’s read a lot and knows what’s overdone and what a lot of other readers want instead. So while I have my own criteria, these posts can help me think of other things I might need to work on.
Ok. I just thought I’d check. I’ll definitely look for sensitivity readers like you said, and I’ll ask my other friends if they know of anything.
That is a good point.
I actually look forward to books that are super long. It just makes me imagine all of the fun things I’m going to read. I don’t mind details, as long as they’re important. Like EVERY small detail in Harry Potter that JK Rowling wrote ended up being important, and that kind of connectivity is hard. But I love books that aren’t quick, if they’re done correctly.
Also, lol @ “somebody asking me to eat a lettuce” because I totally feel the same way.
JK Rowling is definitely queen of tying together all those details!! It’s really quite amazing to think how she did all that. AHhhh!!
(Lettuce is evil.😂)
I totally agree with you on the keyboard smash names. Even with more “normal” names I sometimes struggle remembering… 😐
Worldbuilding would also be very high on my list! I love books with a unique world that is totally different from ours! It would be great to read more books where women don’t have to prove themselves, any recommendations maybe?
And yes, of course we need more dragons! 🙂
I can’t even remember my own name half the time, tbh. So when it’s just a bunch of random letters in a book = halp.😂
And honestly I dooon’t have recommendations for completely non-sexist fantasy worlds. *cries* Although the closest I can get to is maybe the Grisha books and Six of Crows? I also love this book called Reign of the Fallen coming out next year and it’s totally feminist!!
YES. I love it *applause*
I especially hate the Chosen One troupe, particularly when it is from a first person point of view, because being inside their head often displays their lack of brilliance and originality. And keyboard-smash names. Ugh. Do you find fantasy books also seem to have a lot of names that start with the same letter? I always get so confused. For example, I love Tolkien but spent all of LOTR in bafflement between Sauron and Saruman. It literally took me until book 3 to work out they were different characters. Not my proudest moment. :/
Dragons are awesome, also 🙂
I don’t often embark on a 700p monster without a good friend’s recommendation, mostly out of fear. 500+ books are generally either the most brilliant things ever because you get so invested in the characters… or a colossal waste of time. I LOVED LOTR and Robin Hobb’s Assassin trilogy (which I think you would love also from what you’ve said here), but not the Eragon series. Do you have a favorite fantasy epic? Or, to be less mean, maybe a top 3? 😀
Oh god, Eragon. 😥 I never even finished the first book.
YES to the same-letter-starting names!! It gets so confusing. I find “A” and “M” are super common and it’s doing my head in.😂😂 I can’t even BELIEVE how Tolkien got away with two pivotal villains with names that are like…identical.😂
I actually have the first 3 Robin Hobb books on audio!! I just have to get to starting them! 😀
So I have a lot of YA epic fantasies I love. :’) But like some would be: Six of Crows, Finnikin of the Rock, The Winner’s Curse trilogy, Reckless, The Crown’s Game, Graceling, and Princess of Thorns!!
Awesome, I shall look them up ^_^
I love YA high fantasy, but there are so many fantasy books out there that are just so meh. Especially with waffling! Like, I’m all for long books, but only if the entire book is interesting! Like, no, I’m sorry but I don’t care about all of the ticks that character A encountered while trekking through the wilderness alongside character B, while trying to avoid character C.
Exactly!! Fantasy will always be my FAV but I do want to see books be more concise.😂
Don’t get me wrong, big books are daunting, but there are some books you finish and then wish they were longer (Six of Crows duology, I’m just saying). I don’t think drawing on earth history is necessarily a bad thing, but I think you can and should twist it. If history has proven anything, it’s that humans make no sense. Parody history. Watch the world burn.
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Okay…I won’t lie…you are 100% spot on.😂I would take 9 more Kaz books in a HEARTBEAT. *cries because there are no more*
And obviously drawing on history is fine!! I just don’t understand why we almost ALWAYS have the same problems? Like our history has the problems because of decisions people have made = if fantasy hasn’t had people making those exact decisions, how do they have our same problems?
I NEVER UNDERSTAND WHY THE PATRIARCHY/WOMEN PERCEIVED AS WEAK IS A THING IN FANTASY. Like, you are MAKING UP A WORLD. MAKE UP A WORLD THAT IS BETTER THAN THIS ONE. Women KICK BUTT, MY FRIEND. Get used to it.
*karate chops table*
*back flips out door*
EXACTLY, RIGHT?!? There’s no backstory basis for it in fantasies so why is it there??? (Answer: too many old men writing them.😂)
I AGREE THE ONLY WAFFLING THAT SHOULD BE ALLOWED IS ACTUAL CONSUMPTION OF ACTUAL WAFFLES. <3333333 I LOVE HOW MUCH YOU TALKED ABOUT WAFFLES UP THERE IT WAS BEAUTIFUL. :''') But in all seriousness, that's a real issue. Like….I'm amazed by how many authors appear to follow LITERALLY NO STRUCTURE?? Not to say they should be rigid and boring, but…they can't just BUNNY TRAIL over to this Whole Other Plot™ and expect me to follow. ha. ha. HA. NOT FOLLOWING. *row of upsidedown eomjis* SIGH.
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So Lemony Snicket used the term waffling and I love it…BUT WHENEVER I THINK OF WAFFLES I THINK OF YOU NOW, OH WAFFLE QUEEN. I HOPE YOU’RE GLAD OF THE BRAIN-WASHING YOU’VE SUCCEEDED IN HERE.😂
Omg agreed. Let’s focus here, peoples, keep the plot going in one direction.😂😂
Books over 500 pages SCARE ME TO DEATH. I also didn’t realize that Winter was over 800 pages until AFTER I read it and I was deeply disturbed. (But tbh I probably knew that and forgot.) BUT YES!!! There are soooo many cliches in epic fantasy — and some are done well! When you listed those cliches I was like hmm ADSOM… 😂 And I KNOW!!! Of course having real-world prejudices in fantasy can make it more realistic, but VARIETY. I already have to resist the explode at all these prejudices so don’t make you fantasies about them please!
Worldbuilding is SO important in fantasy yet so hard??? It’s a WHOLE NEW WORLD and I know nothing about it. The book either has an info-dump, no info at all, or just right. (SoC was so great at that GOSH.)
Love this post, Cait! And dude I want magical food.
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500 PAGES IS VERY VERY SCARY. And Winter was just….an actual brick.😂 AND too long (duuuude, it got really slumpy in the middle there…even though I still did love it!) And YES. Cliches can obviously be super well done. It just depends on the writing/characters, I think?! And hopefully some fun twists. :’)
We DEFINITELY need more dragons!!!
I’m pretty sure my checklist is just
-Good world building
-Well developed characters
-Dragons
Thats all I really care about (and you know, it needs to be interesting and well written). I totally agree about the long treks through the forrest, I DON’T CARE!
WE ARE IN MUCH AGREEMENT HERE OBVIOUSLY. *hi fives* And those treks need to stop or else have WAY more dragons trying to eat everyone as they run.😂
Me and one of my MCs are just dead laughing at “scrawny orphan is like the king or wizard or shapeshifting pot-plant or something” because they are like one half-step away from ALL THOSE THINGS. But hey, it’s all good so long as the author makes the ChOsEn OnE suffer for it, right? ;D
ABSOLUTELY.😂And you can totally do cliches! haha. *I* do cliches! It’s just about making them yours…and having such winning characters whom you torture a lot so we care. :’)
It doesn’t really bother me that fantasy often has the same prejudices as our world. Since a lot of it is based on our own history (show me a fantasy that doesn’t look like it crawled out of our Middle Ages, please!), it makes sense that it would have some of the same prejudices. That’s not to say that I wouldn’t like to read about something entirely different. But it would have to be really well done for it all to make sense. For example, say we’ve got a matriarchal culture that punishes heterosexual men by feeding them to dragons: I’m going to want to know the backstory behind that! I think we run into problems when authors try to be different, but don’t back it up with proper worldbuilding.
And, yes, books with over 500 pages scare me!
Oh I’ve read tons of fantasies that aren’t set in the middle ages! 😀 I just think it’d be nice to expand and actually have fantasy + IMAGINATION = because otherwise what’s the point of it?!😂 I don’t need to be shown girls can prove themselves — I know it! I just want to cut to the part where girls are epic from page 1.
And agreed *nods* We need the world building if we’re going to have the same prejudices as this world. Like religion is a lot (not all, but a lot) of the roots of oppressing women in our world, so if the fantasy world doesn’t have religion…what’s the root?! WE NEED ANSWERS.
INTJ REPRESENT.
also, why has it been so long since i read a fantasy in which a character actually DIES???? unless every single YA character is a superhero with the extremely specific power of dodging bullets/arrows/decorative plates being thrown at them, whyyyyyy don’t we get some fresh deaths ever? it’s not high stakes if there are no casualties.
OH HELLO FELLOW INTJ. TIME TO RULE WORLDS. (Except there can only be one world ruler so I guess??? We fight to the death at some point??? After tea and cake?)
Bahaha, I know right?! I HOWL over deaths but at the same time I think they’re needed/impactful. Especially in epic fantasy. Otherwise the stakes aren’t really that high, are they?!
I decided a while back that all of my fantasy book sibling relationships would be either “Hey, man, let’s hide the body together!” or “Hey, man, you WILL BE the body.”
ahem, normalness.
but ALL OF THESE WERE GREAT POINTS YES.
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THAT IS ACCURATE AND PERFECT. I’m literally writing this entire book series where that will be the brothers’ attitudes.😂 Because #realism.
You hit the nail right on the head with this post. I was literally giggling at the names section of this post. Everything you talked about was just so ACCURATE. Especially the part about the boring treks through the forest scenes. I will fall asleep or get close every time.
I am new to your blog, and I have really enjoyed it! I will be visiting again soon.
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Okay but first WELCOME TO THE FURY MADNESS.😂 *gives you welcome cake* And I’m soooo glad you liked the post!! I think fantasy books totally need to be kinder on us with the names. I mean who has time for these keyboard smashes!??? hELP.
I always enjoy watching fantasy movies, especially if it involves dragons. I just started my own little movie blog and I would definitely do a write-up on a few fantasies; I just need to make the time.. Looking forward to reading your next post!!
Oren Loni
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Aww, thanks so much!! I’m really glad you liked this post. 😀 And dragons are a must in…basically everything.
I love having female characters who are normal and actually act female and are competent 100% of the time. 😛 And I grew up on the Redwall books, so reading about delicious food in fantasy is always awesome. 🙂
Books over 500 pages didn’t scare me when I was younger, but once I got busy with grad school and life and had like 0 time to properly read, my attention span went waay down. And that’s essentially why I haven’t read Brandon Sanderson’s Way of Kings yet because it’s like 80 million pages long and I’m scared of a pile of paper. 😛
It’s awesome to read about feminine girls too!! I mean, I love the badass ones, but there is nothing shameful about being feminine and still epic! I wish more books would remember that!😂
omg same! Book sizes didn’t really fuss me once upon a time, but now I’m like??? I have 9084 things to do and 94893898 books to read and why are you 500 pages HELP ME. *cries*
And there’s nothing I like better than perfection (except, perhaps, for a particularly delicious chocolate mud cake)
But isn’t a chocolate mud cake just a synonym for perfection, though? 😉
THIS IS TRUE. YOU CAUGHT ME.
I understand all of these! Can we talk about keyboard smash names bc WHAT EVEN (I’m looking at you Throne of Glass) HOW DO I PRONOUNCE ANY OF THIS?! KALE WTF 😂 But the character names usually grow on me so *shrugs*
I CAN’T STAND EXPOSITION DUMPS! Omg give me a minute to process everything! and don’t just start throwing names around so I don’t know who you’re talking about…
And I NEED ACTION AND STAKES! I have to CARE! And have a REASON TO keep reading. if I don’t care I’m not gonna keep reading
I KNOW RIGHT?!? And then someone’s like “Oh Choal is pronounced ‘Kale'” and I’m sitting there having called him “Chay-ul” for like 90 years and that isn’t changing thanks a lot. *cries* Why aren’t books kinder to us.
I do have a few favourite scenes where there are suddenly 6000 names and new people introduced… and the main character is horrified and overwhelmed and wants to flee and live in an isolated bog as a hermit handing out swords to worthy travelers or bog witch or something. Because #relatable, I guess? I mean, who hasn’t been introduced to a bunch of people and shaken hands while quietly thinking “wow I definitely won’t be remembering your name, hope that doesn’t wind up being important…”
World-building issues are one of my big pet peeves too… there are a lot of ways it can be done wrong (so, so many… *insert dramatic flashback montage here*), but there are a lot of ways it can be done right, too, and it’s always so great to explore a really well-crafted world. (That and magic systems, which are kind of a part of world-building, I guess? Magic systems either need to be explained, with limits defined and stuck to, or have a magical sort of author manage to basically say “everything goes because I said so” and somehow pull that off.)
… wow sorry for the long comment.
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Oooh, I would definitely run off and live in the woods with a bog witch. Maybe eat my enemies. *nods* SEEMS LIKE A SOLID PLAN.😂
And omg not the dramatic flashbacks.😂 Or the villains’ beginning the story basically to sit in black rooms of darkness and plot maliciously. Cue eyeroll. Cliches CAN be done well, of course, but I think fantasy authors need to work a bit harder sometimes.😂
Yes yes yes! I agree with all your points here, especially tropes and appropriation. I’ve also only read one fantasy that had gay rep – Windwitch by Susan Dennard – so more of that is a must for me. I JUST BOUGHT THE NAME OF THE WIND AND WOOEE THAT’S A LOT OF PAGES. But I’ll get through it! I think. Maybe. Probably….?
At least if I die in the next couple weeks, you’ll know why.
Ellie | On the Other Side of Reality
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Plow through THE NAME OF THE WIND. Force yourself through the slow-paced first few chapters. It’s soooooo worth it.
Omg I know…it’s a really frustrating shame to find diverse YA epic fantasy honestly. *sighs* Although Reign of the Fallen comes out next year and I’ve read it and IT’S SO GOOD and basically mostly everyone in the world is bi!
NAME OF THE WIND IS GREAT. Just don’t die over Kvothe’s name.😂😂
There are so many things I could say while flailing to respond to this post. Instead, I’m going to make a brief bulleted list.
– Fantasy needs magic or monsters or it isn’t fantasy. Princesses don’t count.
– Too much dialogue is boring and not epic.
– I actually feel like the long trek through the forest/mountains/desert is essential to this genre, err, but it doesn’t have to be boring and too long!
– Limited cliches.
– Dear Odin I hate love triangles, make it stop.
– World building! If your epic fantasy doesn’t have a map (at least in your head) you’re doing it wrong.
– One major cliche is sufficient.
– Ditto on the pre-set prejudices.
– One intense battle AT LEAST.
– The story should be bigger than the protagonist.
You’re on a Stranger Things vibe today. 🙂 Good choice!
<3
Haha, I love your list too! Although I’ll have to disagree on the dialogue aspect because I loooove dialogue and MORE PLEASE ALWAYS. 😂😂 But YES. Just one major cliche is good!?? Especially if it still has an interesting twist. And magic = must.
So much Stranger Things appreciation!!
I don’t mind road trips in fantasy books, but make them have a point? Like, I don’t want HUGE endless swaths of “oh look, what a lovely forest”, but if, say, the characters are making a pit stop in the forest or the town or what have you on the way to somewhere important and stuff actually happens in those places, well then ok.
Dragons or faeries or SOMETHING needs to be in a fantasy. If it’s all humans I get bored and/or sad. I’d prefer if they weren’t all evil, but we can’t have everything, I suppose.
I get why fantasy worlds have the same prejudices and such as our world, but it does start to annoy after awhile. I mean, if we wanted to read about those, why wouldn’t we just pick up a contemporary novel?
Books over 500 pages are not bad, necessarily, but I need to be in the right mindset. Also the author has to be pretty damn special because that is a crap ton of writing and if you suck at your job, I’m going to hate every step of the way and not like you very much on the other side of it.
Dragons…ALWAYS MORE DRAGONS!!! Good ones, preferably, for awhile because they’re always getting cast as the bad guys that have to be killed. Um…how about we not kill the dragons please?!?
Definitely! I mean, I kind of am at the point where I’m sick of ALL roadtrips, but that’s just me.😂 At least make them have a point! My pet peeve is spending 400 pages on massive roadtrip only to have them get to the end and it be pointless so they have to go back!! WE WENT THROUGH THIS TOGETHER FOR NOTHING??? I NEED A NAP.😂
I looove evil faerie and dragons though.😂 But I agree we need more creatures?!? What’s the point of magic if we can’t have cool creatures!
And exactly. I think it can show lack of imagination if we can’t envision a matriarchy or something. *rolls eyes* I’m all for having BOTH kinds of fantasy, but it annoys me that I can’t find a lot where the society of our world isn’t just repeated there!
NO KILLING DRAGONS. LET THE PEOPLE BE EATEN INSTEAD. *nods*
I agree with you on concise. The shorter the book the more likely I am to read it!! I also like standalone novels. I mean, long series are great but I feel the authors begin to go nutty and the books go wild. and trilogies are good if done well, but sometimes it is just refreshing to read a standalone!
And like shorter books can still be 500% AWESOMENESS!! We don’t need 600 pages.😂 We really don’t.😂
Okay, okay, okay but I would totally read a book about an epic road trip to find a magical lasagne dish. That would be my soul mate in book form. Lasagne is life.
BUT YES. WHERE. ARE. THE. DRAGON. BOOKS. AT. !? ?!? ?!?!?. I had this discussion with someone the other day who was like: Hey, Kirstie, if you like dragons so much then why don’t you ever recommend dragon books to me. WELL, FRED – FIND ME A DRAGON HERE IN THIS GLORIOUS BOOKSTORE AND I SHALL EAT MY SOCK. Like what happened? Did Paolini just sweep the board and from that moment onwards authors speared a stake in the ground and declared: Henceforth, nothing will ever be better than the dragonliness of Eragon and thus we cease to ever use dragons again.
Thank god for Naomi Novik. Not that I’ve read His Majesty’s Dragon (but that’s beside the point). We need more dragons else I think you and I, Cait, should start a coup dressed up as dragons and give everyone ferocious paper cuts until someone writes us a good, hearty, dragon-filled, blood-splattered fantasy novel.
Also amen to the use of “y”s as a means of fantasy-fying names. Sylly wrytyrs.
Lasagna IS life, so I will agree with you there. And actually it shouldn’t be on my list of cliches beause I’ve never read it???? And clearly this is what my life is hugely missing. *nods*
Yes let’s blame Poalini for apparently getting the monopoly on dragons so now everything thinks they’re “cliche”. It’s annoying. How dare he. He and Tolkien. SHEESH. WE NEED MORE THAN SMAUG AND SAFIRA. (Tbh I don’t remember the dragon’s name in Eragon. Forgive me.😱😂)
I do need to read the Majesty’s Dragon series…I didn’t love Uprooted though, so that’s why I’ve procrastinated.😂
I am coming to this coup / party. It is a party right??? That sounds like a fun party.
hahah Safira is close enough. I suppose we could make it a party, but a coup is more of a small, rather enthusiastically violent rebellion. Either way *shoulder shrug*
AAAAAAAHHHHHH YESSSS YOU HAVE IT ALL. Seriously, my current project almost follows the list exactly the opposite way. ^^
Even the whole killing siblings part! That’s my favorite part so far, lol. Let me run off and work on my food descriptions. And help me not borrow from Brian Jacques … it would be so easy, though …
Another thing that should be added though is that not all dragons should be treated like beasts. In a lot of books, they’re treated like super intelligent dogs who can fly. PLEASE ALLOW THEM TO LIVE AMONG HUMANS AND STOP WITH THE DRAGON RACISM.
CLEARLY WE BOTH HAVE HIGH AND EXCELLENT STANDARDS. *hi fives*
And omg so with you on the dragons there. Like stop killing them??? I hate that super famous quote that is like “fairy tales tell us dragons can be slain” or whatever it is, because how dare they. Rights for dragons. RIGHTS FOR DRAGONS. IF they want a snack of a human, like why not??? There are plenty of annoying humans out there…
Lol, yes. Seriously, we have Paolini and his stupid parents who own a publishing company. He COULD have made it actually amazing. Instead, we get draft two where nothing makes sense AND NOW DRAGONS ARE FOREVER DOOMED TO BE SECOND CLASS CHARACTERS.
I’m homeschooled too, but at least I can tell that my manuscripts clearly aren’t fit to be released to the public. Then again, I’m not a spoiled brat who’s parents own a publishing company.
Hi, Cait!!
I’ve just discovered you also post on Tuesdays!! yasssss Queen ♥
Anyway, I was wondering, I am currently writing a YA fantasy and I have a lot of characters. I feel like they are important for making the story work well and the inspiration for such characters is Six of Crows (I’m so obsessed, but no blame, right :))) Is it bad that I have like 5 to 6 (or maybe more) characters right now??
btw, I’m getting writing inspiration from you. *not a shocker, though
I literally save snippets of your posts to my writing notes to look back at so I can work on, for example, world building and such because YES TO BEAUTIFUL WORLD BUILDING ♥♥
You are a blessing for my writing, Cait. Alhumdulilah ♥
Like, for realz, I would probably write a cruddy cliche book if you didn’t always make the spaghetti thin strands of my brain rise up in shivers of creativity and start dancing ♥♥
Awww, you’re the sweetest! THANK YOU!!😂 And yes I generally always post on Saturdays, Mondays and Tuesdays! Although this week I’ll do Fridays as well because I have a special post coming up.😂
OH oh and like this is all just my opinion!! I’m NOBODY.😂 So do whatever you want with your writing. 😉 I am super honoured that you like my tips and advice though.😱 (And I LOVE Six of Crows and think the huge cast was done impeccably. I just like how they didn’t introduce everyone in the first chapter, you know? Like Kaz collected the crew and it gave us time to get used to them all.)
Loved this post! Specially two points you mentioned. I run a literary magazine and receives tones of short stories and I always have to tell people to give characters a name I can pronounce and REMEMBER. A bunch of letters together that look weird won’t make me remember the name and therefore the character. Also, I when I wrote my first novel, which is YA Epic Fantasy, I decided it was time to end sexist stereotypes of warriors that are brave 24/7 and ladies who just wait at the castle.
Yes exactly! I mean, there are some great stranger names out there, but some really do my head in. Like Kvothe from The Name of the Wind? I’d explode over that except I listened to the audio.😂
I LOVE the sound of your epic fantasy!!
Haha, waffling! Is that a British term as well? It’s also used here in Ireland!
To be honest, I can’t really speak about this because I don’t read a lot of Fantasy? But I feel that a lot are so long and that really discourages me because I don’t dnf books when I find them boring… well, I still have a lot of Fantasy to check out. I will check out more someday!
OMG GOOD. For a moment I was like “Is this just a term I use or is it actually real?”😂😂 I’m glad it’s used in Britain too!!
Fantasy is awesome but it can be super exhausting. Like 500 pages…omg. I need a nap for that.
Yes! The “y” fact! Also the “K” is overused. The difficult names are the most terrible thing: I read book, a read a name how I want to, be it Italian/French/pseudo-English pronunciation, what the hell, there is no way to truly know the right pronunciation, and then… the movie comes out. And my pronunciation was terribly wrong but I know it by heart and I can not change it! Books should come with a phonetic glossary 🙂
YES to the glossary!! And in the front of the book would be nice?!? That way I don’t get to the end and go “Woah that’s how it’s said?!” 😂😂
To be fair I love the mentor with a bitter backstory who is secretly a smoosh. (I don’t know if my favs count as CRAZY tho…Haymitch, Obi-Wan, Jean-Luc Picard?) Maybe it’s just because I haven’t read it 101 times. Plus it’s worth noting that two of those are from movies/TV and all of them are sci-fi, not fantasy.
Never mind, I’ll just stand here and disqualify myself. And yes books of 500 pages scare me. I would agree we need more dragons as long as they aren’t direct replicates of Smaug because I like Smaug, but… THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE
Haha, yes! I mean I DO love Haymitch a lot…and quite a few other old grumpy but lovely mentors.😂 I just think it is a tired trope and needs a bit of spicing up. (Why is it always guys too?!)
Smaug is amazing as he is and needs not replacement. BUT SHAPESHIFTING DRAGONS ARE COOL.
All those clichés. Those are one of the reasons I don’t read much epic fantasy. A lot of the books feel exactly the same. The characters and the stuff that happens to them are interchangeable.
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AGREED. It can be so annoying and frustrating when everything is just a repeat. That’s kind of how I feel about dystopians tbh.😂 We need fresh twists!
Love this post, Cait! Though your list of clichés… most of them are actually what I want from a fantasy. Those are the stories that got me in to reading, so those are the stories that warm my heart most. I don’t think they’re necessarily predictable, either, even if others follow a similar overarching plot. Though I would say, you should definitely start The Farseer Trilogy by Robin Hobb, because the story as a whole (all 16 books) doesn’t have too many of these clichés, and those it does have I think are pretty different.
I also have no problem with huge fantasy books, especially by an author I already adore. The more, the better in my opinion. High fantasy is meant to be long; if it’s a trilogy, I want big books, if it’s a long series, I don’t mind shorter books, but the story has to be long, or I just feel cheated. It’s epic fantasy, it’s meant to be big. That’s just how I see it.
I love it when fantasies do something different; inspired by other cultures/countries, or completely shake up society so it’s unrecognisable. But I also really like those medieval England fantasies, too. And I don’t mind the prejudices if those prejudices are fought against and make a change. I think that can be inspiring. Especially say a medieval England inspired fantasy where ladies aren’t allowed to do much, other are expectations, and the women are all “bugger that” and do their own thing, or are just really strong and powerful instead of meek and mild. I love that. But I do think things like that only work if the prejudices are being confronted. I’m not sure it’s good enough to have that kind of society, and nothing change because “that’s just the way things are”. That’s not ok.
I also think fantasy does pretty well with food? I should point out that most of the epic fantasy I read is adult. But yeah, where other books say, “they had a pizza”, in fantasy there is always so much food, and you can see it and smell it and taste it – even when it’s bad. I notice the food a hell of a lot more now because of you 🙂
World building, though. I lose my mind when the world building isn’t good enough. I don’t care what kind of fantasy a book is, it has to be able to explain things in a way that makes them believable. It has to answer questions like “how?” and “why?” I read a historical fantasy recently, and it had so much promise, and was actually getting really good at one point, but it didn’t answer the questions. I didn’t fully understand how things did what they did, and for the overall plot, I don’t know the why, not in enough detail. (And the ending was terrible. It actually got so close to the end with no answers at all – and I mean close as in pages away from finishing – so I thought there was going to be a sequel, but then everything was solved and fixed and sorted in about 20 pages. And finished. Too easy, too convenient, just not ok!) I need good world building, or how else am I meant to believe anything?
I very rarely see dragons, too. It would be nice to see more, but I’m not as big a fan as you 🙂
Ok, I’m going to shut up now. Great post, Cait!
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Haha, like I said! It depends on how you do them.😂I’m trash for VE Schwab books and she does tones of fantasy cliches! If you have good complex characters and you do subtle little twists, you can still do the cliches and make them YOURS. I also have the first 3 Robin Hobb books on audio!! I was super excited to start them until I realised the 3rd is like….3 days long or something.😂 BUT I WILL GET TO THEM SOON, I SWEAR.
And agreed about confronting the prejudices! I mean, I love a book where a woman proves herself and is epic too. *nods* But I go to fantasy to escape? Sometimes I’m sick of having to “prove” that females are equal.
And omg so much agreement for the world building. It just looses me if nothing is making sense. You can’t bring us into this suddenly strange world and then we’re like “Ok but what does everyone EVEN DO FOR A LIVING” and “WHERE IS THE CULTURE, MATE”.😂
(Aww, I always love your comments, Jo!! THANKS!)
After this post, all i can say is: Read Mercades Lackeys’ books!!!
Also, the hard-to-pronounce names make it more fun, i think
I’ve not heard of that author! Will have to look her up. 🙂
Thank you for this post! Weirdly I was thinking about this the other day. So many YA Fantasy’s are sooo satisfying to read but at the same time are filled with teeny little things that bug me.
I need it to be not wholly about an outcast character and their somehow completely normal, functional human being interactions with other characters. Like if your character is supposed to be a weird underdog that’s great but don’t contradict that with a bunch of stuff they’d never do.
Personally I think dragons need to be made scary again – they’re too romanticised at the moment and it makes me a bit bored by them, I need smaug – I need terrifying, violent beasts even if they do turn out to be allied with the hero. #I’mSoDemandingSoz
Don’t get me wrong Toothless is adorable and not *all* dragons are softies but lately, esp in YA fantasties writers seem to be skipping the scary and going straight for the domestic. I don’t know if it’s just the books i’ve been reading or what.
I’m gonna stop ranting now, great post
xoxo
Same! Same!
And like I love a ton of the cliches and will read them till the cows come home buuuuuut, it feels like we could do with some different stuff too?!? Like someone CAN be an underdog without being the super scrawny (AND PROBABLY SECRETLY THE LONG LOST KING) orphan on the streets. And books ARE interesting without everyone turning into a magical perfect snowflake by the end.
I looove scary dragons. I would take ANY dragons at this point.😂 I’m writing shape-shifting ones that are seriously badass and eat everything. It’s very fun. :’)
Omg the long trek through the forest…. I hate that!. Why do they do this? How many times do I have to hear about the lovely rolling hills, and the extremely green evergreens, or pines, or whatever? When a book gets up to 500+ pages, I’m immediately intimidated and I need to hear a lot of really stellar things about it before attempting it.
Great post as always!
Brittany @ Brittany’s Book Rambles
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It’s so so boring.😂😂 And they KEEP DOING IT. LIKE WHY. CUT AHEAD OR SOMETHING GAAAAAH. I read this book where the protagonist is literally like “Nothing happened on today’s trek” and yet I still had to go through this whole BORING chapter where nothing happened. *rolls eyes so hard they fall out of head*
I think some authors are too in love with their words and just need to CUT. Kill your darlings actually means KILL THE UNNECESSARY WORDS after all.😂
Seriously, sometimes I wonder how these long descriptions make it through the editing process haha
I’d rather more action or swoony scenes haha
I know right?!?😂 I’d take more sass or action scenes always tbh. 😂
It’s so upsetting when a book spends half the time talking about how BRILLIANT the main character is, but in order to make them smarter than everyone they have to make all the adults complete IDIOTS. No, dear. Please just don’t.
And all the characters who must have had advanced weapons training in their SLEEP because how do you know how to use a sword if you’ve never even touched a cheese knife??? I want a character who is given a sword, tries to draw it, and ends up dragging it around for the next hundred pages because they can’t lift it, or trying to swing it and it flying out of their hand. Because this would be me.
I guess it’s good for my health that I am not a fantasy protagonist. The other characters would be slowed down by the inconvenience of having to dig my grave.
I knooooow right?! I hate that too. It just feels so dumb to read and frustrating. And the like little-orphan-just-magically-being-an-epic-weapons-master is so eye-roll worthy these days. I know they’re trying to cut out boring training scenes, but can’t we skip ahead in time or something!? Fighting is REALLY hard. And like I was reading something that said a newbie can last basically 2 minutes in a physical fight.😂 Then they get too exhausted from the adrenaline rush and the movement.
If I was in a fantasy book i’d be that character who dies on page 2 to get the plot going because that’s about all I’m good for.😂
Me: [ON A FANTASY JOURNEY] carrrrry me I’m tiiiired.
😂😂
Haha, Cait. I love this post and I actually think there is a lot of truth to this! I have a few YA Fantast WIPs and I totally need to rework them and I will for sure be going back to this 😀
Also, I’m in love with your blog and all the lovely and amazing photos!!!!!!!
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Aww, thanks, Stephanie! Although just remember this is just my opinion and I’m just a random wild bean.😂 BUT I’M STILL SO GLAD YOU LIKED THE POST!! (And omg thank you about my photos. <3)
I totally agree with the names thing! Changing a vowel to y does NOT make it a more interesting name.. It just shows that the author was too lazy to research meaningful names. The other thing that gets me about names is when they have half “fantasy” names and half “normal” names. Like… (Throne of Glass reference, oops) Aelin and Eli don’t feel like names that should be in the same book… Unless, Eli is short for some cool as shit. Maybe it’s just me!
And YESSS, characters should DIE in fantasy. I hate it (but also love it?) when all the characters survive. Obviously I don’t want my faves to go and die but I hate it when everyone lives. But at the same time, the death has to have purpose or not be random. I’ve read random deaths just for the sake of death and it’s kinda like wtf?
Great post!
It just makes the name confusing tbh.😂And then when you hear it said you’re like, “WAIT, WHAT DO YOU MEAN IT’S PRONOUNCED LIKE JANE????” Talk about hurting my head.😂 I’m okay sometimes with the mix between normal and not-normal though? Sometimes it can make it easier to handle.😂 Like I’ll suffer through Kvothe (from Name of the Wind) because his best friend is like Will and I can do that.😂😂
I’m the SAME with the deaths. Secretly I want all the babies to live but then…it’s unsatisfying and unrealistic?!? Gah.😂
I haven’t read much epic fantasy lately, but this is pretty accurate. Especially the world building and “keyboard smash” character names! Also in the world building section your comment about a tub of yogurt having more culture… for some reason I found that to be hilarious!! I laughed for a solid five minutes before continuing reading. 😂
Those keyboard smash names are so frustrating haha.😂
Omg I’m really glad you like my terrible jokes. I FEEL REALLY GOOD ABOUT MYSELF RIGHT NOW.😂
This! This! This!
Fantabulous post, Cait. As a fellow fantasy lover, I heartily agree with your points. Especially the cliches. Like seriously. Of any genre out there, fantasy should be bursting with the most creativity, otherness, amazing epicness, and bold variety. But no. Everyone wants to play on the same street and it’s getting crowded and annoying and I just want to shout at people: GO BOLDLY WHERE NO FANTASY HAS GONE BEFORE. *weeps*
Also, Star Trek references in a fantasy post for the win. 😉
Zachary Totah recently posted…7 Fantasy Clichés that Need to Be a Thing in Real Life
Aww, thanks, Zachary!! 😀 Fantasy definitely has a horrible tendency to get complacent. Gahhhhh. Sometimes I think fantasy authors aren’t reading enough of their competition and peers because they all sound the same?!??? C’MON PEOPLE. UP YOUR GAME.😂
Star Trek makes everything better though, let’s be real. :’)
Yes to more dragons! (Even dragons with three-dimensional characters, if I could possibly be so bold as to ask??)
But wHERE ARE MY SHAPE-SHIFTING POT-PLANTS?? and the quest to find a magical teaspoon?? these should be a thing and my poor mind is confused because they’re not, and WORSE than that, the Cait doesn’t want them. Why, Cait?? Why???
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Dude, YES. It shouldn’t be too much to ask for dragons AND complex characters.😂
Also yes, where are our shape-shifting pot plants at? COME ON OUT, FRENS. Actually I have shape-shifting sort of tree people in one of my fantasies so I guess I’m a huge hypocrite and DO want them.
THIS IS HOW I FEEL AND WHEN I TELL MY FRIENDS THEY ARE LIKE, “No Tess you crazy fool! your ideas are stupid”, I WANT A BOOK WITH DRAGONS AND A WIZARD AND CRAZY FANASY STUFF. Things that are nothing like the world now. I WANT IMAGINATION AND INSANITY! This post is beautiful, and oh my oh so needed! This is MAJESTICAL and awesome and just fantastic. Till we meet again -Tessa L.
EXCUSE ME? YOUR IDEAS ARE AWESOME. YOU ARE FANTASTIC. I AM IN SO MUCH APPROVAL OF DRAGONS ADN WIZARDS AND CRAZY FANTASY STUFF. *slides you cake* Go write itttttt.
Okay, so I didn’t realize ADSOM was adult fantasy. I was planning to read it but I don’t generally read adult fantasy. Can you enlighten me: what makes it adult as opposed to YA? Is it dark (Six of Crows was about my limit)? Is it gory (I don’t like detailed descriptions of spurting blood and bones sticking out of wounds and violently ripped off limbs and such)? Is it racy/steamy (I avoid explicit sex and prefer minimal suggestiveness/pages worth of kissing scenes – The Mirror King is a good example of the most I’m comfortable with (The Orphan Queen was definitely fine))? Or is it something else entirely? Should I read it? (Also, I read TSS and loved it.)
Thanks for being my book counselor; you could hire your services at this point and make a living off what you do for fun right now! “Matchmaker, matchmaker, make me a match, and find me the perfect book!” 😂
haha you’re adorable!😂 Okay so like I’m the worst person to ask because I never know what the “line” is, especially for other people. My teenagerdom was always like “Make it daaarker” and so like??? It makes it hard to advise people when I don’t know how dark one likes things. It’s pretty bloody but I wouldn’t say it’s gory or horror-ish. No violently ripped off limbs.😂 Kissing scenes yup. There’s sex scenes in ACOL, I think (NO I DON’T REMEMBER. I HAVE THE MEMORY OF A BEAN) but they’re not graphic. I haven’t read the Mirror King. Definitely not Game of Thrones levels of graphic anyway!
And TSS was super dark so I think you’d be fine.😂
(Sorry for being wildly unhelpful.)
I 100% agree! That list of cliches is so accurate, just stop already! It’s all been done.
They can be done BETTER and more uniquely though…but I wish we saw more of that!😂
ALL THE DRAGONS. I am #agree! My goodreads shelves have like no dragons either??? IS THIS BLASPHEMY BARTHOLEMEW???? #rude. I need more dragons. And like also other magical creatures??? WHERE DID THEY ALL GO.
Also – I may actually have too much food in my books (shhhh I know that’s not possible okay). If I’m hungry while I’m writing, THERE IS FOOD IN THAT PART. I can’t help it haha. FOOD IS THE BEST FOOD IS LIFE I WORSHIP FOOOOOOOD.
And omg YES STOP WITH THE CLICHES ALREADY. Especially the super cringey ones (I especially like how the children are taking over the world because adults are stupid. But why can’t that happen in real life it would be awesome tbh).
ALSO. I’m terrified of basing cultures off of real ones because of the exact reasons you said and also because #lazy and ALSO because WHY DO I HAVE AN IMAGINATION IF I DON’T USE IT. Come on.
As you can see I have many feelings about epic fantasy because it is probably my whole life??? #nobiggie
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WHY NO DRAGONS, ESTHER. WHAT DID WE DO TO DESERVE NO DRAGONS.😭 Everyone calls them fantasy’s biggest cliche and like…I see them not anywhere. I’ve been ROBBED.
FOOD IS THE BEST THOUGH. It’s super helpful for also reminding me what I want for dinner.
I hate the stupid-adult-trope. I kind of wish they can work together more?!? Like I *get* that we want the Young Hero to face trials alone and I want to read that too!! But you don’t have to make adults DUMB in order to accomplish that. Or like really dumb police/law forces? *rolls eyes* And I also hate when evil is stupid. Evil is smaaaart. Make evil smart. In fact, make the book star evil.
*whispers* I SWEAR I’M NORMAL.
IT’S MY WHOLE LIFE TOO. WE ARE GREAT PEOPLE.
I agree! With practically everything except the requirement of death. I hate getting attached to characters only to see them die. I AM LOOKING AT YOU, ACOL. I AM LOOKING AT Y O U. Character deaths just really get to me. I know, they pack an emotional punch and raise the stakes and whatever, but I am perfectly happy reading fantasy with near death experiences but actually no death.
I don’t think the scrawny orphan trope will ever die, RIP CAIT.
A fantasy novel idea is swimming around my brain right now and I am terrified that my world building is going to be terrible. Maybe I should just send it to you and you can tell me if it’s good enough or not 😛
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C’MON ACOL WAS PERFECT. WE ALL WANTED OUR HEARTS RIPPED OUT. *gross sobbing in the backround* And actually I’m a huge hypocrite because there’s this fantasy series finale I’m avoiding because I don’t want my baby favourite smol strong tragic child to die. So. Don’t look at me…I’m weak. 😭😂
(And it’s true.😂 Everyone loves their scrawny orphans.)
Aww, don’t worry! Fantasy world building is HARD and it’s okay not to get it right the first time! I work super hard on mine and then the first thing my betas will say is “okay so what’s with the world”.😭😂 But *whispers* if you ever want to swap critique books together or anything let me know.😉
Mega long books are generally too long – I’ll agree. It’s a very rare case where you can pick up a 500+ page book and just jump right in, the size alone is too daunting! Unless it’s an author I love or a series I’m LOVING, don’t do it!
Also – those names! I’m with you there!
World building – this is something that can go so wrong… Firstly, there’s the type that doesn’t think about this at all… I mean – we need to know how the world works! Why is it how it is? WHat are the rules? But then there’s also the type that goes WAAAAY overboard with the details. YES, you need to think of these things and know them, but you don’t have to TELL me all of them. Just saying…
And yes, high stakes = casualties. It happens. But be prepared for a backlash when all your readers love the people you killed. 😉
DRAGONS! I love dragons. I’m reading a book now that has a dragon on the cover and promises dragons… But I”m about 35% in AND THERE ARE NO DRAGONS SO FAR… Colour me disappointed.
Food! Yes. Renee Ahdieh does that so right.
Ugh.. So many cliches. Done right they can work, with a little twist, a little tweak. But I hate thinking I’ve read this all before.
Great post as always!
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Agreed! And like there are some books over 500 pages where I don’t want to miss a single world (!!) but generally there are parts I wish were trimmed or seem pointless.😂
Worlds NEED rules. Magic systems need rules!! It just makes things flow and makes the world real and believable to we readers, despite the fact there are dragons flying or like everyone has purple hair. IT’S JUST NEEDED.😂
And when no one dies, I kind of get uninvested. A good book is meant to stress us out, right?!?😂
I love this! Yessssss to no keyboard smash names. I thought that was cool when I was 12 or 13. I’ve grown up, and I wish authors would, too. 😂 I can barely remember one character’s name, let along 20, lol. You already know how I feel about authors adhering to our sexist, racist, homophobic society. Ugh.
I used to think it was cool too, tbh. Let’s not talk about 15-year-old-Cait’s fantasy books…we all had to start from somewhere okay?!😂
And we are in SUCH agreement about the prejudices. It just annoys me so much when we have like this whole fantasy world and yet author’s can’t use their imaginations beyond that?!? MATE. WHY.
SHOULD NOT RELY 100% ON OUR SOCIETY’S RULES, PREJUDICES, AND HISTORY. ✓
Omg this is one of the many, many, many reasons I loved Lies of Locke Lamora instantly. He talks about women in various, mainstreamly manly positions as if it’s totally normal. Like, female guards without being like WHOA A FEMALE GUARD SO RARE! It’s just a female guard in a scene. So great. Much wow.
I ADORE Locke Lamora too!! Although I wouldn’t say it was a feminist society however, because there were still quite a lot of subtle patriarchy things going on, but it was still pretty excellent with gender-equality!
Love this post! I completely agree with all of your points – epic fantasies are always so intimidating because of how long they usually are. And the strange names always mess me up too. 😂 Thanks for sharing and, as always, fabulous post!
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They can be totally scary.😂😂 I mean, I LOVE them, but I also avidly avoid them sometimes hahha. WHY MUST THEY BE BRICKS.
LOL YES I HATE WHEN BOOKS (or scenes) START OFF WITH TWO BAJILLION CHARACTERS AT ONCE, because 0.00432198743 pages later, I’ll be confused by the people in the scene
ALSO YES CLICHES ARE THE STUPIDEST.
IT’S TOO CONFUSING FOR MY SMOL BRAIN THAT’S FOR SURE. I have enough trouble remember who’s in my family and I’ve lived with them forever. *sighs*
I’m not going to lie. I got a bit distracted by your bit about cookbooks needing more explosions for you to read. And your mentions of dragons.
Please consider cookbooks with dragons.
OR A DRAGON’S COOKBOOK. HOW IS THAT FOR A GOOD BOOK.
(A dragon teaching the princess how to cook because “HOW ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO SURVIVE IN THE REAL WORLD WHAT HAPPENS IF YOUR KINGDOM GETS OVERTHROWN WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU DON’T KNOW HOW TO MAKE CAKE”.)
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I seriously think whoever writes cookbooks needs to reevaluate their life and give us EXPLOSIONS AND DRAGONS. #need
Wow, I’ve instantly fallen in love with your blog? I think I’ve been wandering the planet blind. I NEEDED THIS.
Anyways, I wholly agree on most of your points, but for me, for whatever god awful reason, I loooooove super long books. ONLY if the characters and the world are intriguing. Its like a giant juicy cake with layer upon layer upon layer and it’s so addicting and I never want to see this author stop writing about these characters!!! I’ve been known to chow down on 500 + page books with ease. I devour them.
Speaking of devouring, um, yes? WE NEED MORE DRAGONS. Originally in my universe (I’ve been working for years on several book series and I just recently started a blog & website) had dragons, but I felt like they were too ‘cliche’ and just too easy for me to use. SO I came up with an entirely different creature that is kinda “dragon-ish” but it breathes lightning instead and has feathers. :’D They have fulfilled my need for big, winged creatures that inspire awe and fear into my characters. I talk a bit about them in my blog. I really wish more fantasy novels would go big with the fantasy creatures. I love, love, love fantasy creatures. And fantasy books. Fantasy anything.
I’m going to go follow you on twitter now. x’D Thank you for sharing your hilarious and honest thoughts!!
THIS IS GLORIOUS AND I’M SO GLAD TO HEAR IT, AMANDA.😂😂 THANK YOU. And I’m glad you love long books. *piles them on your head* you can have all mine.
WE SO NEED MORE DRAGONS. I feel like I need to write 938 dragon books to make up for the lack in this world. *sighs* I looove the sound of your dragons!!! THAT IS EPIC.
Did a mental check with my fantasy WIP while reading this. I think I’m in the clear? Except I definitely need to add more food. And maybe a dragon.
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Aww, haha, I’m kind of honoured you think that much of my opinion.😂😂BUT YES ALWAYS MORE FOOD.
Omg I laughed out loud at this 😀 And you make really good points! I love fantasy too!
I just loved this XD
Indigo
AHHH! so glad you liked it!! *flails happily*
Excellent list full of excellent points!
I can’t really think of how I would alter or add to this list for myself… Briefly, for me, a perfect fantasy has fantastic beasts. And character names I can pronounce/remember, *solid* supporting cast (I hate when only the primary characters get to have personality. and giving side kicks/mentors/random wisdom givers super cliche personalities does not count). I do enjoy some quality food scenes, and I do like things to move efficiently (ie please do not give me page after page of description… sprinkle that description in to the dialogue and action and Move. Things. Along. Unless it is a profound soliloquy, which are very rarely actually interesting to me…)
I never really thought about the our-world-prejudices the way you’ve laid it out here… but now that you mention it, it is so rare I read something that doesn’t seem to have our non-fantasy cultural norms woven right in. Beauty standards are the same. Gender roles are the same. No need for that! (I can think of some exceptions… Dark Breaks Dawn, for example, has a light kingdom and a dark kingdom and one is a matriarchy and one is a patriarchy… and they women in the matriarchal society have just as much respect, power, etc. as the men in the patriarchal society..). Also now that I am thinking on it, Piers Anthony does a good job of creating a world that has entirely it’s own rules and prejudices.
Books over 500 pages don’t scare me, per se, but they do require a particular mood for me to dive into them. One of my favourite fantasy books (not YA though) is Maia by Richard Adams and it is over 1000 pages. And I have reread it more than once. What scares me are series. I love Piers Anthony’s Xanth books… when I got into series there were like 15 books. Now there is like over 30 and I stopped reading them when school was kicking my ass and I don’t know how to start again without restarting because I have forgotten everything and OMG I JUST CHECKED THERE ARE 41 NOW.
Yes. Always more dragons.
FANTASTIC BEASTS YES! I love it when they really develop stuff like that..especially if it’s magical. 😍
And like I’m not asking ALL fantasy books to dissolve the patriarchy but we are in so need of a change…particularly without the history of OUR world which defines the patriarchy. *sighs*
DUDE, 41 BOOKS. I’ve not heard of that series but that’s overwhelming!!
It is a delightfully punny series, so I may one day dive back in… but 41+ books is a huge commitment. I have commitment issues.
This post was just epic! (Yes, I had to made that pun, even if 15487 people already did). But for real though, fantasy is my FAVORITE, but I hardly ever read epic fantasies that I can rate 5 stars. Most of the time, it’s not the length that scares me. I am okay with a longer page count as long as the content is still interesting, witty, or full of dragons. Unfortunately, that is a rare thing these days. I have actually been cheating a little bit and sneaking into the world of adult fiction in order to get my fix of epic fantasies. Even though there is nothing really wrong with that, I hope that YA fantasy can take a good long look in the mirror and figure out that we want something different.
Cliches are definitely a turn off for me, especially the annoyingly unrealistic ones. My least favorite is the cliche of trying to discuss all of your personal issues RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF A BIG BATTLE. Like bullets are flying, swords are flashing, and magic is suffocating the air, and you decide that you need to fix your couple/family issues NOW? You would be dead in an instant, not hugging in the middle of the battle after making up.
I’M GLAD YOU LIKED IT.😂 Also the pun is A+ and appreciated.😂 And I toootally am with you on the sneaking-into-adult-fantasy…it annoys me though because usually I prefer the YA writing style, but I need the depth/darkness of adult!
While I was reading this post and I came to the group chat part I came to a great idea. A BOOK ALL TALKED THROUGH GROUP CHAT!!!!!!! Sorry freak out moment. And of couRSE IT HAS TO HAVE CAKE, just for you Cait *Wink* *Wink*. It’s late where I am so I am clearly losing my ming, but whatever. I will write this book and it could be set in awesome place with awesome shit, death, canniblism, and A PIECE OF CAKE.
Good article! I enjoyed reading it, as always.
However, I’m going to pick on something for a moment (bear with me, I do have a method to my madness) and that’s where you mentioned the ‘chosen one cliche’.
…
This annoys me, personally, because… of course it’s a cliche. Every single hero in every single story is in essence… the chosen one. They are the hero.
They are the one chosen among the masses for the story to follow.
Yes, some stories go more into it than others (adding a prophecy and jazz) but there is also a reason that people use it. People love seeing a chosen one. They love prophecies. They love the idea of a person selected to be special (especially if they were nobody before). Yes, it can be done badly. But if done well (Harry Potter, Percy Jackson, and Gregor the Overlander, for example), it can prove to be a very interesting, captivating story.
Still, I would argue that every story follows the ‘chosen one’ trope at least a little bit. Why are we reading about Katniss instead of Prim or Gale or even Peeta? Because she’s special. She’s the chosen one.
See what I mean?
Anyways, that’s just my two cents 😉 Carry on.
Thanks! I’m glad you did! And I totally get where you’re coming from with the “chosen one” thinking, but (at least for me) it’s not as simple as that lol lol. 😂 When I say “chosen one” I mean the one who can do something nO ONE ELSE can. Like Harry Potter’s powers or, say, Kell from A Darker Shade Of Magic being the “only” one who can go between Londons. Whereas the narrator of a book is the centre of their own story, but the entire fate of the world doesn’t hinge on their decisions, aka I don’t think they’re “Chosen ones”. So chosen one isn’t the same as protagonist.
(I’d call Katniss the chosen one because she DID totally change the society, even reluctantly. However a character like say Hazel from The Fault In Our Stars obviously changed and channelled her story but not the world.) ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Ah, yes, I can see what you mean. I like the way you differentiate between the two.
Personally, the chosen one cliche as you describe it is my favourite kind of story, both to read and to write. I love the idea of an ordinary person who becomes extraordinary enough to be the only one that can save their kingdom/world. And magic is awesome. So. Yeah. 😀
I’m glad you like the trope!! I mean it *is* cliche, but that doesn’t ever mean it’s bad right?! Like Harry Potter and A Darker Shade of Magic (just two out of many!) are bestsellers with that trope so readers obviously love it!
Awesome post, Cait! I’m pretty new to Paper Fury, but I love it already. And I’m glad you mentioned the fact that cliche’s aren’t always bad… sometimes they’re done right.
AND YES. THERE CAN NEVER BE TOO MUCH FANTASY FOOD.
Aww thank you, Kendra!!💖✨ You are LOVELY. And absolutely: cliches are not always a blanket bad. Just mix them up a bit and things can be amazing, right?!
EXACTLY. 😉