History has a pretty common theme of humanoids flaunting an I-Am-Better-Than-Thou attitude.
Seriously, we freckled fiends* have always had problem with racism, sexism, and discrimination. Adults think they’re better than kids. Skin colour is an issue. Girls rule, boys drool…or something.
Apparently, there must be something to squabble about.
I totally get why this enters books. Of course it does! Books are a reflection of society, right?! We relate to problems that hit close to home.
Who doesn’t relate to Harry when he’s bullied by Draco?! Don’t we all see a little bit of ourselves in Lucy’s curiosity as she opens the Wardrobe or Ramona Quimby’s tendency to wreak accidental havoc? Books are powerful when we feel like they understand us. So it’s absolutely natural that society’s issues get packaged into books. Of course it is. I’m nodding emphatically.
But I still have a question.**
Is it really necessary for 99% of fantasy novels to be sexist?
IS IT?!
* I do not, here, suggest that everyone is freckled. I just like alliteration. Duh.
** What can I say? It’s who I am. There is always a question to be asked.
I recently fell back-in-love with fantasy novels.
I admit! They do kind of scare me. They’re huge and daunting and complex and…did I mention huge?! My small mind baulks at tackling 500+ pages (which is mildly ridiculous considering the sheer amount of books I read…but whatever). But every time I stifle my inner whingeing and pick up an epic fantasy — I fall in love again. Throne of Glass? Finnikin of the Rock? Snow Like Ashes? GIVE ME MORE.
If you follow me on Goodreads, you’ve probably noticed my morbid status updates about my reading of A Game of Thrones. IT’S SLOW GOING. But I am enjoying it for the sheer depth and size of the world. Also promise of dragons. Also loads of delicious food.
But one thing that’s really bugging me is: the sexism.
Most epic fantasy books do this. The women have to fight for their chance to hold a sword. It’s a WAR in every story to have them seen as equals to men. HUZZAH! GO THE WOMEN. They are depicted as strong and brave, even though they’re knocked down at every opportunity. (I admire them immensely.) But sometimes I pause and say…well, why? Why do (almost) all fantasy worlds have the same problems as our world?
Why can’t, occasionally, I read a fantasy story where it’s assumed and expected that women are fabulous ALREADY?
For example:
- In A Game of Thrones, Arya has to battle tooth and nail to be allowed to wear pants and learn swordplay.
- In Rangers Apprentice, Princess Cassandra is the bane of her father’s existence because she wants to practise with a catapult instead of sew.
- In Finnikin of the Rock the woman are barely even seen by society. They’re background noise.
- In Eon, the main character masquerade as a boy to prove she has any worth. And even she believes woman are worthless.
I definitely think these fantasy books empower women! They do! I think The Shamer’s Daughter and The Winner’s Curse and Stormdancer are all fantastically feministic books.
But what I want, I suppose, is to read a book where it starts with the girl NOT having to prove anything. I want to start with the girl believing that she is a worthwhile member of the world.
We can relate to the oppression, sure, but when do we get to move on? Is continually writing it into fantasy books just underlining the fact that the world is sexist and isn’t changing fast? Would it help change the world if books didn’t rehash sexism over and over and moved onto other issues?
Or (like everything) should there just be a balance?
We don’t want to forget history and we do want relatable books. But books also serve as an escape occasionally, as well as lessons and adventures. I’m tired of losing myself in a fantasy world where women are (almost) always viewed as inferior and have to prove otherwise. If a fantasy book is narrated by a guy, sexism ISN’T a big deal. If it’s narrated by a girl, it is.
I question the fairness.
Oh, and let me whisper something before I run off. I don’t think these books are being sexist. I think they’re set in sexist worlds. Just to be super uber clear on that.
\\ mild disclaimer: i don’t presume EVERY fantasy book fits into this theory, okay?! i haven’t read thousands of fantasies. //
do you find fantasy worlds are usually sexist? do you find it relatable/uplifting or does it frustrate you? do you think fantasy worlds should ALWAYS relate to our-world problems, or should they explore different issues?
I love this topic! I totally see what you mean about the books not being sexist themselves but being set in sexist settings that parallel so much of the sexism in the real world (or sexism of the past) and it would be SO NEAT to read something that just completely bypassed those prejudices. HOWEVER, in Game of Thrones the country of Dorne is a principality in which the crown ruler is not determined by gender (just wait until you meet Crown Princess Arianne!) and it was founded by a warrior Queen, Nymeria. It’s really fascinating to see how gender is so much less of an issue in Dorne (and women are though to be powerful and there’s a whole lot less concerns with their purity and associated value, etc) but even this progressive country is still given a sexist spin considering everyone else in Westeros thinks they’re strange and foreign because of these views…so you can’t have everything, I suppose. Now you’ve inspired me to go and write a fantasy novel based in a matriarchal society! (Although now that I think about it, Trial by Fire by Josephine Angelini is sort of set in a matriarchal society, but I know that’s not “high fantasy”…but it’s a start in YA!)
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Ohhh, THAT EXCITES ME ABOUT GAME OF THRONES! All I know about Nymeria so far is that she's a wolf. XD But I will definitely keep reading that series. *nods* I love it a lot. and YES! Trial by Fire does pretty well, but, I mean, if you think about it…all the soldiers are still men. And even Queen of the Tearling is still super sexist because everyone assumes she'll flunk at being a queen even though she's 1000% fabulous. *Sigh*GO WRITE A NON-SEXIST FANTASY BOOK AND I WILL BE YOUR BIGGEST FAN.
Anyone who doesn’t go shopping for clothes and buy books instead lives a very sad (tediously organised) life 😉
I don’t read large amounts of epic fantasy (because I’m lazy) but this was kind of how Shadow of the Dragon worked. The first one was brilliant (please don’t get me started on the second one), but girls were treated as inferior BY LAW because a prophecy stated that a woman would bring the king down and he wanted this to be impossible. I’ve haven’t met many sexist people, so I don’t find it relatable. I don’t think that fantasy has to reflect real world problems – I mean, my fantasy worlds are always pretty equal, possibly because I don’t view myself as inferior so I struggle to write charcters who do (because of gender, anyway.) I think most fantasy is like this because people use the past as inspiration and it’s packed with -isms.
My thoughts exactly. When we go op-shopping (thrift stores/second-hand-stores, it's aaaalways different depending on the country right?!) I always go straight for the book section. And then I wonder why I come home with no new clothes…XDANYWAY. YES! I love your thoughts on this!! (I'm lazy too, though, so I understand this feeling, although I feel sooo much more invigorated for fantasy than I used to.) But totally yes: the whole “viewing yourself as inferior” thing really gets me in girl characters, because while the-real-world IS kinda sexist….most woman hate that it is and try to change it. So it really makes me grind teeth when the girls in fantasy books think they're inferior. 😐
I can’t possibly tell you how many times I have gone out for clothes and only come back with books. And then I can’t decide whether I’m happy or disappointed because I usually desperately am in need of clothes. Anyway.
I can’t say that I read too much epic fantasy – like you, the page count scares me off. But, I can understand how a lot of these fantasy worlds seem to sexist. Thinking back now, most fantasy I have read it like this. If fantasy worlds can be so very different to our own in every other way, what’s stopping the girls from being seen as equal or even superior?
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I am SO in need of clothes. Mine are literally dyyyyying and STILL I COME HOME WITH JUST BOOKS. I'd be sorry but…booooks. XD(Why do fantasies have to be so monstrously huge?! That's what I want to know! I mean, I know it's world-building, bUT STILL. Gah. They scare me.) If we can have magic in fantasy worlds, whyyy can't we magic away sexism?!
Well to be honest, I didn’t really notice how much sexism there is in fantasy…until I read this post. And then I was totally nodding along and thinking to myself, “this is why I follow this blog.” So anyway – I think most fantasy worlds tend to be a bit sexist but like you mentioned it would be nice if there were more worlds where this wasn’t exactly the main issue. And I think it would be more interesting if fantasy worlds explored different issues (and it might even bring more awareness to those issues).
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AHHHHH *FLAILS* OKAY THIS COMMENT MADE MY DAY. XD *ahem* So anyway, yes, I think a balance would be nice? I think, especially in this day and age, we could be leaning towards more progressively thinking fantasies? Or at least zero in on other prejudices. Exactly, though. WHAT YOU SAID. I want to see different issues explored.
I understand the frustration but I also don’t believe that fantasy books should steer away from exploring oppressive sexist power dynamics because they do still exist – perhaps, to a lesser extent now but in some work industries and countries, there are situations where it appears. However, I believe the presence of an oppressive power dynamic in these stories doesn’t necessarily reinforce that specific power dynamic but let’s the reader question it (if the writer is being clever about it). I like that writers have a space to question certain things if they want to as readers also have a space to question and critique too.
I also think it’s common coming of age plot arc in YA stories for the protagonist to feel oppressed by a power structure (and therefore questions assumptions and move from passive to active ways of being) so that probably is a related factor. Gender and power are often linked together in stories. I also really enjoy those stories when that transformation/inner revelation for a character rings true. For me as a reader, sometimes, there’s more inner conflict and interesting tension if a character starts off facing that sort of oppression and gradually gains their independence. Here’s another perspective on that YA trope: http://meaganspooner.tumblr.com/post/91250926123/…
I guess the default for a lot of fantasy stories is loosely medieval/throwback history so perhaps that’s another factor. Although there are some exceptions like epic fantasy series such as Sabriel by Garth Nix and Cold Magic by Kate Elliott where education or powerful positions such as warrior related roles are not defined by gender in a sexist social paradigm.
Have you tried reading urban fantasy? I find that the urban fantasy heroines aren’t always questioned about their abilities and if they are, they usually shut down a sexist character in a lightning fast fashion. I recommend Magic Bites by Ilona Andrews (urban fantasy adventure) or Fortune’s Pawn by Rachel Bach (sci fi adventure – often compared to Firefly/BSG) if you’re looking for those kind of stories with heroines that don’t feel too dragged down by a system.
Scifi usually plays a bit more with gender power reversals and power dynamics eg. matriarchies instead of patriarchies or worlds where gender is not an issue. There’s a lot of classic feminist scifi books by Ursula K. Le Guin, Sheri S. Tepper (The gate to women’s country) and Joanna Russ who created worlds with those gender/power dynamic reversals. (These sf classics are still on my to-read list). I’ve also heard great things about the sci fi book Ancillary Justice by Anne Leckie where is gender roles are not as defined.
Oh I agree, I don't think fantasy should abandon exploring sexism issues altogether! That would be, I guess, just as bad…because these ARE issues and literature is a great way to poke at society's ridiculous opinions and take different sides and just view it ALL from a fresh angle. *nods sagely* Power structures being oppressive? YES DEFINITELY. But I usually enjoy it, like, in dystopians when the power is being oppressive buuuuuut it's not because people are girls or whatnot. Like in The Hunger Games, or Divergent. Being a girl has NOTHING to do with the trials they go through and I just love that.I just wanna see some balance!XD And yes I love urban fantasy. It's my go-to genre. 😉
Yes! Another Urban Fantasy reader 😀 After mulling over this topic, I definitely agree that more balance and diversity regarding gender roles is needed in epic fantasy (I’d love to read more epic fantasy stories like that too!) I just thought it was equally as important not to exile stories that explore sexism and heroines with different/slower passive to active character arcs. Thanks for starting this fantastic discussion!
Uhh… If I’m honest, I always assumed that ‘fantasy’ is another way of saying ‘medieval with magic’. So when there’s sexism – and there is A LOT of fantasy sexism – I’ve always put it down to the whole feudal society, women are worthless thing that we’ve seen throughout history. But I suppose what your saying is that fantasy takes place in an entirely different world, so why should their worlds reflect the same injustices as our worlds? Which is food for thought… I don’t actually read a lot of fantasy BECAUSE it’s so sexist. my boyfriend is currently working his way through the Game of Thrones tv show, and I hate it. Why are the women always naked and not the men? Why are we perpetuating the idea that women are only good for men’s pleasure? Yes, that’s how it worked back in the by-gone days of yore, but that’s not society any more.
It makes me angry. But the kind of angry that is most frustrating, because whenever you say anything about it people laugh you off because feminism is a dirty word. Sigh.
Also, I am freckled, so you can call me a freckled fiend at any time 🙂
Beth x
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I hear ya on the GOT TV show. My husband and I actually really liked the character development in the books, but we gave up on the show because it sacrificed so much of that for nudity and lesbian make-out scenes. (And I don’t remember so much of this in the books. Don’t know why they felt the need to add it to the TV show?)
You might like the His Fair Assassin trilogy from Robin LaFevers. The girls in those books are pretty kickass and hold their ground with the men, even though they can’t necessarily go out to battle with a sword. And they have a medieval bend to them–late 1400s Brittany, if I remember right.
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ERGH YES. I hear you. It is not a good message to be continually flogging and I don't think it's right for us to continually have to be watching/reading this. IT'S NOT FAIR. And pfft, people say “life's not fair” but i kind of think that's an excuse not to do anything about it. *steams* Aaanyway, I love the GoT books, but yes the nakedness of, well, just the woman is really frustrating in the tv show. I've only seen one episode and I was kind of frustrated about that. -_-
I’m going to talk in relation to Game of Thrones here.
I think it obviously has a very medieval setting and back then women were oppressed and didn’t hold as much of a say so it kind of makes sense why GRRM would follow suit with that and have women be not regarded as anything other than baby-makers.
But I agree with you on the point that it is the women’s ability to rise above this oppression in these fantasy worlds that empowers them. Like Cersei or Danaerys taking control and not letting these men boss them around
And I guess in the end the sexism kind of urges US the reader to not give in to oppression. I mean I want to be Arya and I guess if it wasn’t for Game of Thrones I wouldn’t have a notion of where I’d stand in a society where women aren’t the big guns.
Sorry if I went on a bit of a ramble there.
You didn't ramble! I totally see what you're saying and yes, these kind of worlds are so definitely based on a medieval version of our own. But, I kinda wonder, if these fantasy worlds can have magic and weird creatures…why can't they have original backstories too?! WHY ALWAYS SEXISM!!? *rails and collapses* hehe, sorry. I do know why they do it, but I guess I want some variety?
Great post – I’ve never thought about this before! I guess a lot of authors want to prove a feminist point and therefore wish to show their female characters overcoming adversity rather than starting off free from sexism. However, I totally agree that it would be awesome to read fantasy books where there is a world without misogyny already, and where women empower themselves in ways other than battling sexism.
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Sometimes I wonder if these fantasy authors even think about it though? With almost EVERY author doing this, I kinda wonder if they just all follow the trend instead of thinking outside the box. >_< BUT THAT SAYING, it is a poignant part of our history and relatable. >.>
True, I’m sure alongside the one’s that do think about it, there are plenty who also neglect considering that things could be different for women. If we can’t even be equal in fantasy, what does that say about our progression in the real world?
EXACTLY. YOU SUM UP MY THOUGHTS PERFECTLY, MY FRIEND.
I’ve shopped for clothes and come back with books. It is normal. I totally agree with this discussion, because it is something that needs to be talked about. This morning I finished the Cure for Dreaming by Cat Winters, which was magical realism mixed with the women’s suffrage movement in Oregon (a little low on character development, fabulous in every other way) And I don’t think modern society could go back to a time where women didn’t have the vote, but there is still inequality. I guess writers don’t want to create a boring utopia or promote their ideas so strongly, so they make their characters fight for their rights. Does this symbolise/represent the inherent racism in our world? Because it will take more than singular figures to speak out against sexism. It will take Meira and Lucy and Kel and Alanna. If you want to read a fantasy focused around womens rights and adventure, I recommend Tamora Pierce, especially Song of the Lioness and Protector of the Small.
I think fantasies are written that way because that is how the world works and they don’t want to be feminist cult books, they want to be mainstream (the authors, that is, not the books)
Wonderful post Cait!
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PHEWF. I AM FINALLY A NORMAL HUMAN BEAN.Hmm, I do see what you mean, but at the same time…gah. I don't know. I JUST WONDER. I don't think leaving out sexism would make a book “utopian”. It's just there are so so many issues in our world. Racism is one that's actually been put more on the backburner. Which is interesting. Having a non-racist fantasy world doesn't make it utopian. So I guess I just want balance! XD I wanna read about books where the girl kicks butt and everyone sees that as normal. 😉 And authors being mainstream is definitely a good point there. xD
YAY! FANTASY!!!!! *Hi 5* I have a HUGE LOVE for fantasy too! And I have noticed this, and I think that in lots of cases, they are sexist worlds and then there are women showing that they can break that stereotype which like you said before, is empowering. (YAY EMPOWERMENT!)
And I would just like to say (yes I finally read it thanks to you and other internet peeps) GO CELAENA SARDOTHIEN FOR BEING BADASS AND SO GOSH DARN AWESOME!!!!
And I must read the Game of Thrones series…but my friends tell me I shouldn’t because I’m too innocent or something… phhhfff. But I shall read it! BRING ON THE DRAGONS! The only other books I’ve read with dragons are the Dragon Keeper series and The Hobbit.
Thanks for sharing Cait! xoxo
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YES CELAENA IS AWESOME. And I basically thought she probably represented the perfect feministic world…except someone else pointed out that, during all the testing and everything, no one thought she was a threat. Why? She was girl. -_- So as much as I love Throne of Glass, it still pretty much fits into this issue. *le sigh*HAHA. YES. Throne of Glass comes with an education. xD
Great post Cait. I’m just getting into reading fantasy, so I can’t give as much of an indepth reply like some of the other lovely readers of your blog have! I had never really considered it, to be honest. Until now. Now I think back to some of the fantasy books that I have read and I completely agree with your points. The women certainly do live in a sexist world. I’d love to read more fantasy books where the women are accepted to be as kick ass as they are! 🙂 I do believe there should be a balance though and that’s what I’m hoping for in future fantasy reads!
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It would be bliss if woman were expected to rock. I NEED SOMEONE TO WRITE A BOOK LIKE THIS.
That’s a good point. I think it may be because authors always try to provide barriers for the characters to overcome. And also because it’s more interesting to hear about women overcoming something that exists in our world today rather than women in a world quite unlike this one. Although I do see what you mean about it getting repetitive and portraying sexism as something that will always be there no matter what. That can be annoying!
It’s nice to see people being outspoken about feminism, especially in the latest “feminazi” rage that’s been going on. 🙂
Wow, I have never heard the term “feminazi”. It sounds a little scary, tbh. I'm going to go google that. I toooootally get what you mean! And it is true that characters need barriers to overcome. But, like, Bilbo from The Hobbit is a classic example of an epic-fantasy character…and yet he doesn't fight against feminism. No one is saying, “No, Bilbo, you're a boy and you can't do this.” They're saying “No Bilbo, you're too small, you can't do this.” So it's like completely different depending on the gender and THAT'S what I'm struggling with right now. >_<
Yes, this is unfortunately and lazy storytelling I think. Let’s just fall back on how things “were” as an excuse in your new make-up world. Authors certainly do it on purpose, and it is annoying to read lots of books with women as window dressing or used solely for exploitative purposes. GOT for me had a lot of this, but also had a resurgence of smart, plucky female characters in the later books, simply playing the game. It never quite balances out, but it was a step in the right direction. I just finished the winner’s curse and while it makes good effort to seem like a balanced society, there was still some imbalance present. She has to either be married or enlist in the army (no option to run a business or live her own life), she has to be accompanied in public, her lack of fighting ability is seen as a weakness (you must be exhibiting masculine characteristics to be useful to this society), etc. Good topic we should all be more mindful about.
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THANK YOU. I kinda think it's lazy storytelling, to be honest, because the more I search for a book to break the mould I CANNOT FIND ONE. (Even Throne of glass, with its kick butt attitude still has the entire trials thingies where Celaena is viewed as not-a-threat because she's a girl. *Cries*) Agh, I still feel like The Winner's Curse is a bit odd. I mena YAY woman can go to war and be generals! But then at the same time they can't even walk around without supervision?! I actually was kind of troubled by that inconsistency. >_<
Hey, let’s be the change we want to see in the (publishing) world. 😛 I do want to find something that breaks the mold, and maybe we have to do it ourselves!
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Great post! I can’t say much about fantasy myself, though, as I’ve only really read Harry Potter and a few younger children’s books. I think it’s an important message that you have got at in this post!
Eeep, thanks, Elly!! It's been burning on my mind for a long time now. 😉
I think there’s two kinds of epic Fantasy: Those, where women are totally equal, and it isn’t even talked about that they’re no allowed to fight and those you are talking about. The latter are the more popular. I think it’s mainly all because some authors want to show a realistic world (G.R.R.M., duh) meaning that they want to reflect a middle-age-like world in their novels and others want to reflect an ideal world like they would like it in their books.
I’m not sure, what you mean with sexist. I mean, all these books don’t mean to propagate sexistic opinions but rather talk about them and that there is/was sexism of this or that kind. So they’re actually not really sexistic, but just embracing it. Sure, there could be more different books, but that’s something you’e goin to change, aren’t you? 😀
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Well, I would really LOVE to read a book where the women are equal. So far, to be honest, I haven't found even one. 0_0 It really bothers and disturbs me. I mean, in every other genre I see it, but just not in epic fantasy. I do think the oppression-towards-woman books are more “popular”, but I wonder if it's just because it's mainstream and common and people just write like that without thinking??? It IS a poignant issue in society buuuuut, like I said in the post, if a book is narrated by a boy this doesn't enter the equation at all! SO WHY FOR GIRLS?! *flops* I do think they are sexist though. Sexism is: prejudice or discrimination based on sex. And that's what these worlds are about.
Change authors?
Read Elizabeth Moon och Mercedes Lackey instead of Young Adult fantasy?
Charles de Lint?
Maybe look for authors that have been nominated for Nebula or Hugo awards?
Read more gritty fantasy “Best served cold” av Joe Abercrombie.
It seems that the succes of Twilight sprung a lot of “girl caught between two boys fantasy romance” where they lean heavily on
girly girlishness but kind of empowered by a lot of power that she is to girly to manage to use. SF seem less overwhelmed with them too, try some SF.
I really usually avoid the fantasy you have got caught reading, that was easier before the last five years or so but I like fantasy because it can ignore
gender roles if it prefers, and I prefer.
I love books that feature kick-ass female main characters. I get what you mean about when you say you don’t always want to see them have to fight tooth-and-nail in order to be seen as equal. Why can’t they automatically be equal? This is what frustrates me: It is so sad that Feminism even needs to exist! I feel like it should just be common sense for people to be viewed as equal (I know, probably a naive idea right? In an ideal world…). What makes one sex better than the other, or one race better than the other?! What about the Human Race? We are all people!
It’s good to have books that show the MC fighting against what many view as the norm: whether it is having to prove that they can be just as skilled a fighter as men etc. They may be fantasy books but it’s good to be able to relate a little to some of the struggles going on. It is inspiring and may make people question the status quo, but on the other hand it’s good to have a balance and show people what it should and could be like. It shouldn’t always have to be a fight for women to be viewed as equal. I just reread Graceling and while no one questions Katsa’s fighting abilities as a girl, because of her Grace, some people do question why she doesn’t want to be married and have children. She’s female, so it goes without saying that she will want this, right? No. Being female does not mean that it is programmed into your DNA to want this; we are individuals and desire different things.
Wow, I went on a rant there. Great post, Cait!
HERE HERE, I AGREE WITH THIS SO MUCH.
I quite enjoyed this topic!
I do agree that the whole “girl must prove herself” is getting old, but I find it as realistic to what girls really have to do today (that might sound a bit confusing). For example, how realistic is it for a 110lbs girl to beat up a 200lbs man? It’s realistic for her to get away, but to beat him to a bloody pulp isn’t so much (I guess this makes much more sense in my head!).
One series that doesn’t have women proving themselves is the Sword of Truth series (I watched it when it was a TV show up to a certain point, and then started to read the books but only got through the first one because of it’s raunchiness, though). Kahlan is a Confessor which automatically makes her of higher status than even Richard, who is the main character and the Seeker who is destined to overthrow the bad guy.
Anywho, they do exist, but they are far and few between. 🙂
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Omg, DO NOT WORRY. You make 100% sense. I totally have issues when the heroine is described as “small and petite….oh and btw, the best fighter ever, she'll level giants”. Which is kind of unrealistic. -_- I'm totally looking up Sword of Truth series now!
Yes, yes, yes! For the longest time I’ve wanted to read books set in a fantasy world where sexism isn’t a big deal and girls can just be themselves without having to prove they’re as good as a man–and I can’t help thinking that the idea that you must be “as good as a man” to be a strong woman is in itself a form of sexism. I want girls to have swashbuckling, epic adventures without their gender coming into it–at least not in a “you must prove yourself worthy of this just because you are a girl” kind of way. Thanks for such an awesome post!
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YES! And I would just like to read a book where it just is NOT an issue. Like never ever. Like, for once, a book where no one mentions a single thing about who is the better gender. *sigh*
When I first starting reading, I was going through a mental checklist of feminist fantasy that I’ve read. I had a few going, sure. But it was all debunked at this line: “read a book where it starts with the girl NOT having to prove anything”. Holy moly. That says everything. I didn’t realise until this moment but dammit, that’s what I want. And I want it desperately. As feminist as all the books I’ve read have been, OUR HEROINES ALWAYS HAVE SOMETHING TO PROVE. WHAT THE HECK.
I WANT EQUALITTTTTY PLSSS
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I KNOW RIGHt?! IT IS A BIT SAD. Like, I would consider most epic-fantasies to be “feminists” books, but they're still set in sexist worlds. *growling sigh* I juuuuuust want to read ONE book at least where gender isn't a huge issue.
On one hand, I do agree with you. But don’t some fantasy novels take place way in the past? I haven’t read a lot of fantasy, so I am not sure. But if it takes place in a time when women did have to fight for equality, then it makes sense that would be in the book. Otherwise, I don’t know why they have to be so sexist. If I were reading it, it would frustrate the hell out of me.
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Well, it is true…from a historical standpoint! But then, these same books add in different religions and cultures and customs…so why stick to gender inequality?!
I went shopping for trousers this morning and came home with three books and two DVDs. Also the trousers, which is good because now I don’t have to wear trousers that are too short to tomorrow’s job interview YAY.
Epic fantasy and I have a very complex relationship, and you’ve hit the nail on the head here – sexism is one of the biggest reasons why I struggle with it. And it’s not even necessarily that it’s sexism. It’s an almost total lack of female characters. I mean, you look at a series like Mistborn. There are only about three named female characters, and only one of them is relevant to the plot. The others are stuck up queen bee types whose sole purpose is to come between the significant character and her love interest.
Another one of the reasons why I struggle with epic fantasy is that authors dedicate hundreds and hundreds of pages to creating a world, describing a magic system, establishing countries and rulers and wars that span generations. But PRACTICALLY EVERYONE IS WHITE. And able-bodied. And straight. Essentially, any kind of minority either doesn’t exist or there’s like one token character and they’re all mysterious and don’t say much because they’re from a land across the sea that no one knows much about. Um, NO. How about we don’t do that.
So yeah. A lot of epic fantasy seems to be supporting the ideals of 1950s society – women struggling against the system and EW MINORITIES ARE GROSS AND DON’T EXIST.
This is why I prefer urban fantasy…
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You might like Tanya Huff’s Quarters series–it really departed from the “straight white ablebodied” norm. I thought it was nice that she did it so casually, like it was no big deal (because it shouldn’t be!).
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Trousers is handy, for sure. And I mean, clothes are NICE, and I do get into strife when I really really need clothes but KEEP COMING BACK WITH NEW BOOKS INSTEAD GOSH WHAT IS THIS. But I'm still not really sorry. -_-HA YES. omg, I've only scratched the surface with the gender inequality. There are so many issues here, it's not even funny. And the problem is, sure these issues are “historically accurate” but it's NOT historically accurate to have magic and weird customs and all that. But authors seem totally fine adding them in. -_-I love urban.
YES YES & YES.
So, I have so many thoughts on this. I shall try to be concise & coherent. I do understand that often authors who write these fantasy worlds are aware of the sexism in their world & indeed tend to write stories that counteract that sexism in that their characters often overcome their society in order to do amazing things anyway, and that sometimes these books even send feminist messages. That’s not so much the issue for me. A book that does that is not the problem. What I do think is the problem is when this becomes the STANDARD for fantasy novels. Because for every great writer who sincerely structures their society that way thoughtfully, there are writers that follow and write their worlds that way because that’s what they’ve seen in the genre(which does not mean these writers aren’t also good writers or thoughtful! Just that they might not be approaching it from the same place and including it when their books don’t even NEED it). Not every fantasy world needs to be based on middle age Europe anyway, though I suppose that is a different topic.
I tend to side-eye any writer who uses the excuse “that’s just how things were!” Oh really? THEN WHY DO YOU HAVE DRAGONS? If you can add in magical creatures, you can make YOUR society in YOUR book less sexist. I feel like that excuse shows me they HAVEN’T thought about this topic carefully(and again, it’s not like I’m opposed to this society in books every time! Just when they use that excuse).
Fantasy is often escapist. A lot of the time it’s wish fulfillment, too. . . . for men at least. Guys can pick up a fantasy book and imagine themselves as the hero(I mean, I’m just thinking of all the adventure-fantasy books with male leads who are “chosen ones”. Even when the stories are dark, there’s still an element of wish fulfillment). Women get to escape a world with sexism into. . . another world with sexism. How delightful.
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OMG YES YESSSSSS SAY IT LOUD AND PROUD, STORMY. THIS IS ALL WONDERFUL. x) And I agree…why is EVERYTHING medieval Europe?! There is an entire world out there. *sigh* I'm actually seeing more Middle Eastern fantasies coming out which is SUCH a relief, but they still stick with the gender inequality. And from a historical viewpoint: yes, it's accurate. But how come we're adding in magic and new cultures and STILL sticking with sexism?! IT MAKES NO SENSE.Yes, the “that's just how it is” is not an okay excuse. It is so unfair for us. And it kind of makes me feel like authors are still using epic fantasy as a “male genre” which is so so unfair. GAHHHHH.
Wow, I’ve definitely thought about the sexism in fantasies before (I read a lot of fantasy), but this gives me a whole new perspective. I’ve always complained about the weak, overly-feminine, and/or largely ignored/non-existent female characters, but I’ve never thought to consider the way the culture of the world itself was written. If it’s a fantasy novel, that means it’s set in an entirely fictional world, which means the author can stage it however he/she wants! The author is not limited to the cultures of this world, though fantasy novels so often get stuck in the medieval era.
However, I do really enjoy the strong female characters who fight against the sexist cultures they are placed in (by the author, who I already mentioned I’ve never thought to blame for said sexist culture. not sure why. it totally makes sense. duh.). These are very inspiring and have wonderful morals for the readers to glean, and so I suppose there is a place for sexist cultures in fantasy books. But why are so many of them that way? And why do so many fantasy novels feature scantily-clad women on the cover? Even if the men are wearing full armor, the women are half naked. Honestly, we have more common sense than that. Thanks, illustrators.
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Exactly! Authors aren't limited! I wish they'd peek outside the box more often. *sigh* They do with magic….
I think part of the reason it’s so common is that so many fantasy worlds have a medieval English or ancient Norse feel to them. In both of those societies, women didn’t have equal rights, so lots of authors seem to wrap that cultural norm into fantasy worlds (either accidentally or on purpose).
I do seem to remember a matriarchal society in the Drizzt books by R.A. Salvatore, but I don’t think it was portrayed in a good way. If I remember right, Drizzt ran away from that society because, as a man, he didn’t have any rights…and I think he might have attacked someone over it. Can’t quite remember.
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I read that series too…if I remember right (and I might not, it was years ago) it had more to do with the fact that the Drow society Drizzt left behind was so cruel and bloodthirsty, and Drizzt didn’t agree with their principles. I also really loved the character of Cat that Salvatore created–it was good to see Drizzt wind up with a girl who was strong and independent in her own way, and didn’t depend on the men in her life (her father or her husband) to constantly protect her.
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It's true…and historically accurate. Except then these same books go and add dragons and magic and original customs. So they're willing to break outside the “historically accurate” box SO MUCh, but just not for gender equality?!! WHAT IS THIS. *cries*
Hahah this is all very true. And I don’t know why this is. I guess it’s because most fantasy worlds are based off of historical cultures and such, and that means bringing in some of the sexism with it. I DO TOO WANT TO READ ABOUT A FAIR FANTASY WORLD. And I’m sure it happens sometimes! I know in Sanderson’s novel sexism isn’t the big challenge/obstacle for female MCs to overcome.
Also, I think sexism is used as a trope in fantasy, just because it acts as a good plot (GIrl wants to be a hero, needs to fight her way to be an equal, etc.) Or maybe it is a reflection of our society, and the message is for us to FIGHT BACK AND GET WHAT WE WANT because we’re not inferior.
ME LIKES THIS TOPIC. GOOD JOB CAIT
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I need to read a Sanderson novel, CLEARLY. xD Actually…I'm probs going to go reserve one right now because I keep putting it off but I really really want to. xD
I’ve never really been bothered by this – but now that you mention it, we do need more fantasies where girls don’t have to fight tooth and nail to be counted equal to a man. Yes, it’s an issue that needs to be addressed, but honestly, it’s become too predictable. From a purely literary standpoint, authors need to branch out and start using different plots. As a reader, I’m very much done with Rebellious Princess Syndrome (which is the Side Effect of this issue you’ve brought up.)
But, to take this a step further, isn’t it also sexist to say that a girl can only be strong and valuable if she sheds her femininity and steps into a male role? Because, realistically, no girl, even at her peak physical condition, can match a man in his prime. It’s a biological fact that we are, on the whole, smaller, have fewer muscles, and generally have less endurance. That doesn’t make us inferior – it makes us different. We have our own strengths.
Don’t get me wrong, I love swordmaidens just as much as the next modern girl (and as an author, I have MANY in my writing), I’d just like to see more books where they find value in being GIRLS, in nurturing and mothering. I want to see girls who will pick up a sword or bow and form a second line of defense behind their men, and then lay them down when the battle’s over and NOT pick fights just to prove that she’s “better.” I want to see fantasy cultures where girls are treasured as individuals and allowed to chose their own lives – but the same for the men. Does a girl want to study the sword? Let her. Would your hero prefer to become a chef or a tailor? More power to him. The only thing I ask is that men should be valued as MEN and women should be valued as WOMEN. Is that too much?
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I think a lot of the time, sexism in books reveals how the author thinks/feels about the issue, whether they mean it or not. If an author has women as distant background noise only (I’m looking at you, Tolkein), or thinks they have to prove themselves to be considered the equals of men, it says a lot about their attitudes toward women in general. They might take it for granted that women are lesser creatures. Sometimes the female characters’ fight is about demonstrating sexism, but these demonstrations never take the radical step of suggesting that sexism is unreasonable. Personally, I love the rare book that turns sexism on its head and places characters in a fundamentally matriarchal society, with obvious disadvantages for male characters.
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Oh I totally see what you mean. And these books do a great job of FIGHTING sexism! One day, though, I'd like to see it from a different angle like “there is no sexism in this world huzzah”. XD ONE DAY!
I’ve never really thought about this before —- but you are RIGHT. Now I’ve got the urge to read some fantasy (not a genre I usually frequent) and see for myself…but WHAT TO READ. You have created a dilemma. Please assist.
I've absolutely been gobbling fantasy lately. 🙂 It makes me sooo happy except…for this issue. Gah. And now that I've really thought about it, I can't stop! It affects like EVERY book I've tried to read!
OHO CAIT YOU NEED TO READ THE SEVEN REALMS SERIES BY CINDA WILLIAMS CHIMA. Okay so I’ve only read book one but MATRIARCHY.
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OKAY I'M GONNA LOOK IT UP RIGHT NOW BECAUSE I TRUST YOU.
A couple of things…
First, epic fantasy is often written by men. Not always, but it seems that they’re more represented there than in some other genres (like contemporary or romance, for example). Men are products of the society they’re raised in. Our society is still sexist, even if we’d like to think otherwise. (Of course, sexism can bleed into women’s writing as well, because they’re also a product of our society. One of the most sexist pieces of writing I’ve read lately was written by a woman.)
Second, epic fantasy is often set in worlds that, while not exactly real, are often based on our own Middle Ages. You know, when you could accuse your wife of being a witch just because you got tired of her burning ye olde gruel… and have her drowned in the local pond. So, there’s that.
I don’t mind sexism in a book if it’s addressed. But if women are on the sidelines by default, then I would question why. Is the author too lazy to come up with a different social system (and so just bases it on our own world’s past)? Is it something to do with this fantasy world’s beliefs/religions (and if so, it had better be mentioned in the story and not just glossed over as if it’s just something normal that should be unquestioningly accepted)?
I’m also not comfortable with the whole notion of the strong or “kick-ass” female character in some of these books because, invariably, she’s viewed that way because she’s acting like a stereotypical male. We never refer to a female character who uses her brains to solve problems as “kick-ass”… even though she might be far more effective at kicking a problem’s ass than an assassin who kills a few people at the behest of a ruler (who’s usually male).
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Hmmm, yes, I do know what you mean. But at the same time, if these books are going for a “historically accurate” feel, then how come they get to add in dragons and magic and new cultures yet STILL keep the sexism?!! *stamps foot* It's not fair. -_- And I agree about the kick-ass thing. I mean, I think there's balance. But that's why I LOVED The Winner's Curse/Crime, because the heroine was amazing and strong and fierce and…girly. YAY.
I agree, many of the epic fantasies I read are exactly like this. Or there is a powerful female warrior, but it’s usually just one and the others are prostitutes, inn keepers and such. I mean, have you bloody seen female characters in fantasy-setting MMORPGS?! Their armors are almost always skimpy outfits that would guarantee their death if it were set in real bloody life. I, too, would love to read an epic fantasy with females who already hold power and are strong and capable and not having to prove themselves, although I do find that kind of trope good, too, because seeing their development from being immature to mature is really fulfilling. I do find it sometimes exhausting to see a lot of fantasy settings being inherently “sexist” in nature and the excuse is “it’s a part of the world”. Joe Abercrombie’s HALF THE WORLD was this way, and even though I loved Thorn and how she proved EVERYONE wrong, it was really upsetting the world was set that way in general when it comes to warfare (although there are a lot of other strong females there, but in other fields).
Faye M. recently posted…ARC Review: Hold Me Like a Breath by Tiffany Schmidt
Those costumes drive me nuts! Especially the boob-shaped breastplates–one well-placed blow would kill the character. (And what’s sexy about a breastplate, anyway? Curious minds need to know.)
Martha recently posted…Top Ten Tuesday: characters I’d like to check in with
If I was in an epic fantasy world, I would trip on the ridiculously long dresses and just faceplant and die. <– factA fantasy without the sexism or gender inequality troupe would be GLORIOUS. Half a King was amazing and I want to read the next book!
I was very confused by this title at first, and I thought you meant Tolkien-like epic fantasy. As much as I love the Tolkien books, there are barely any women to be seen in Middle Earth and all the women there are only minor characters, which makes me very sad. Mow that you mention books where girls live in sexist worlds, I realize that it IS really prevalent in epic fantasy. However, I kind of like that. Maybe it’s because I live in an often sexist world and it hits home for me. I’ve been in so many clubs and classes related to technology where I’ve been the only girl and as hard as I try to be confident, it’s REALLY intimidating. To see other female characters in books face similar obstacles and conquer them really inspires me, so I enjoy books like that. But each to her own!
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YES! See, this is totally why I think that it should've be cut out of books altogether. I'd just like to read something (for once) in the epic-fantasy-genre where gender isn't an issue.
This bugs me too! I think the difference is whether the author takes that sexist world/time period and does something with it, or if they just let it slide. For example, with Game of Thrones, it’s set in a sort of fantasy-medieval world where women were not seen as strong or capable of ruling, yet GRRM has written some pretty feminist characters who constantly challenge that norm and struggle to move ahead. (You see it more as the series progresses–no spoilers here!!!!) So I’m actually really enjoying watching Arya, Dany, and even evil Cersei in their fights. And there are others you’ll run into later. They make me think of historical characters like Joan of Arc who also had to fight the norms of their times.
But then when there’s a series set in that kind of world/period and the author is just like “eh, girls shouldn’t be fighters, no big deal”–that bugs the hell out of me. I think by saying nothing you’re essentially agreeing with it. Interestingly enough, you would think that women would write really empowering books and it would be the men writing poorly developed females, but that isn’t always the case–some of my favorite females were written by male authors, and some of my least favorite females come from the pens of female authors.
I guess the only solution for we feminist wordsmiths is to write our own books with girls who rock it right from the start!!
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Zomg, I love GRRM's girl characters. They're incredible and fierce and smart and brave. (Even Cersei. XD) But, yeah, they still have to prove themselves and the dudes are disgustingly sexist. -_-I LIKE YOUR SOLUTION.
I love this post so much! I guess I never really thought much about just how much girls need to prove themselves in fantasy novels. I think maybe it didn’t seem odd or unfair in my reading because I always tend to picture fantasy worlds as being old and historic, but your post brings up a good point. Not every book is HISTORICAL fantasy, so why don’t authors write more FANTASY that doesn’t follow the age-old stereotype of women? Hmm… you’ve definitely got me trying to think of some books that start out with an amazing female heroine from the get-go! I’m sure I’ll be more aware of this topic when I read now too! 🙂
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EXACTLY!! And even if it is “historical” then, why do they get to add in dragons and magic and new customs?!! They keep gender inequality but dragons are totally sensible?1 WHAT IS THIS. Gah.
I SOOOO AGREEEE!! Like, the thing is, most of the Epic Fantasies have strong, incredible heroines but only WE know that! The guys in the Fantasy world are like “Pshaw, what you sayin’ this girl gonna kick my butt? With what, a spatula?” etc. and that is very not okay. For example, let’s take Throne of Glass, shall we? Obviously Celaena is awesome and kickass and funny and Adarlan’s Assassin. And yet, during the competition to be king’s champion, she was hardly viewed as a threat! Everybody was assessing the guys but because Celaena was a girl, she didn’t prove to be a threat until she proved herself through and through. Like, why? Why not view her as the same competition and the other men? WHYYYYYYYY?!?!?
Yes, so me agrees very very much with zis discussion. It IS quite an awesome discussion. ;P
~Fari 0:)
Fari 0:) @ My Little Corner For Books recently posted…Combined Reviews of The Vampire Academy series by Richelle Mead *SPOILERS*
ZOMG I LOVE YOUR POINT ON CELANEA. I actually never thought about that before…but you're so so right. She is totally ignored because she's a girl. And I was quite disappointed with SJM's new series, A Court of Thorns and Roses, because it is really really very sexist. Worse than ToG. Gah. The feministic female characters are there, but it's just the societies that sadden me. AW, THANKS, FARI. XD
I really wish epic fantasy authors would realize that medieval Europe isn’t the ONLY SETTING A FANTASY BOOK CAN HAVE. Because they use that as an excuse. “Oh, this is how women were treated in these times.” “Oh, I don’t have any gay characters or characters of color because ~it was the time period~” STOP. THAT’S NOT A GOOD ARGUMENT. You’re a writer creating a fantasy world, why create one that perpetuates all the same stigmas and stereotypes and sexist behaviors of our real one??? You can do anything, set your book anywhere; the genre is called “FANTASY” not “WHITE PEOPLE IN MEDIEVAL TIMES WHO DON’T HAVE TOILETS YET BUT CAN DO MAGIC.”
/rant. But seriously, epic fantasy gets a bad rap because there are so many authors just recreating LOTR and Game of Thrones, and it’s tired and disappointing. Also, maybe this is just me chafing with the Game of Thrones TV show, but it seems like epic fantasy includes a LOT of rape nowadays??? I don’t want to read about that. More dragons, less violence towards women, please.
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aHH YES THAT WOULD BE SO NICE. -_- I'm seeing more Middle eastern-ish fantasy books coming out, but yeah, it's definitely a minority. I really want to write a totally feministic fantasy world someday. *adds to to-do-list*Erghhh, yes, I've watched only 2 episodes of the GoT and I'm so impressed with how close it's to the book, but at the same time, the rape/sex is not okay. 0_0
Excellent point, excellent point.
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Why thank you. 😉
You have read my mind, you fabulous creature you. I am actually going to be writing a ranty post dealing with fantasy too like in an hour so……. yeah.
I absolutely adore fantasy but the more I read and the more I become aware of issues in our society, the more picky I become and the more problems I notice in modern day literature. I was reading a fantasy the other day, and it was not by any means a bad book but I GOT SO ANNOYED BECAUSE IT WAS SO WHITE AND STRAIGHT.
Do fantasies (I am generalizing, I know there are some fabulous ones out there that don’t do these things) take place in an alternate universe where women are weak, everyone is white, and straight is the way to go? Why is it that people don’t even notice these things? Books are a reflection of our beliefs (I even wrote a paper about this) but they also, in their own ways, work to inform people, I know books have definitely helped me become more educated on certain issues, and if we continue to be stuck in this cycle where books we read (especially in the fantasy genre) continue to ignore diversity, it’s not going to HELP.
Blagh.
This is such a fantastic and fabulous post, Cait. THANK YOU FOR WRITING THIS. *tackle hugs*
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I LOVED YOUR POST. So so in agreement with you about all of this. It's like 2015 already, COME ON AUTHORS. Fill these holes! It's like EVERYTHING is up to be imagined differently (like dragons and magic and cultures and clothing) but noooot the important issues like gender. -_- WHY IS THIS?! We can't claim these fantasies are 'historically accurate' because they're not anyway, with the magic. So why not add in some stuff that matters.
*sighs* I think, to be completely honest, this is why I’m not a complete epic fantasy fan. There are so many stories – especially in that genre – where women are portrayed as the “weaker” sex, and that’s what makes me mad. While I agree that books are supposed to reflect real life issues (and feminism + women’s rights are definitely one of those issues debated today), that doesn’t necessarily mean every single epic fantasy book must be about gender inequality, you know?
Thank you so much for sharing this post! ♥
Zoe @ Stories on Stage recently posted…Extraction
EXACTLY. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I THINK. And while I'm really enjoying getting back into reading fantasy…these issues are causing me to rate so many books super low. *sigh* I can't actually name even ONE fantasy where gender inequality isn't an issue. That is sad.
I completely agree with you on this. I absolutely hate discrimination. There isn’t anything I dislike more than unfair treatment based solely on gender or skin color or anything else. Humans have been around for years now, and yet we still can’t learn to treat everyone equally? I don’t understand what is so hard about respecting others for who they are and, as Martin Luther King Jr. said, “the content of their character.” I haven’t read Game of Thrones yet but I loved Throne of Glass. I ask myself the same questions you asked in this post sometimes. I love the brave, courageous, strong, fighting heroines who overcome challenges to save the day. But should they really have to face those challenges at all, especially when it comes to gaining others’ trust and respect? In Throne of Glass, Celaena is unfortunately the only female assassin in the fighting matches. The other male fighters all consider her petty and weak, even when she easily defeats one of the other male fighters. THINGS SHOULDN’T HAVE TO BE LIKE THAT. We’re just looking for a little equality here, is that too much to ask?
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Ergh, yes, I totally see what you mean about Throne of Glass. At first I thought it did pretty well, but in reality? NOT REALLY. -_- I mean, I think it does better than some others, but at the end of the day: it still fits in this theory. *sigh* ASKING FOR EQUALITY SHOULDN'T BE SUCH A BIG ISSUE. GAH!
I agree with you… it can be rather fatiguing to see all of these Girl Fights Sexist World, Becomes Bad-ass Exception stories, even though the lady characters in them may be awesome. I was trying to think of epic fantasy that doesn’t have this problem, and the only thing that came to mind is the Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan… except that it sort of does have a sexism problem, just of a different sort. In this world, women are commonly just as/more powerful than men… but there’s still a lot of silly girls vs. boys stuff and “I just don’t understand the wimmins!” from male MCs (and vice-versa). Although… now that I’m thinking on it, Brandon Sanderson’s universes tend to be rather more equitable in many ways, too.
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I really need to try some Brandon Sanderson! His name has come up SO MANY TIMES in the comments that I'm sold. 😉
I honestly think one of the main reasons high / epic fantasy has so much sexism is because of one thing:
Historically, our world has been super sexist.
And even though it’s fantasy/fiction, there need to be some ties to reality in order to make it ‘believable.’ So what’s more relatable than making the culture of that world similar to the culture of our own in ages past?
Not saying I agree, but I can see the perspective — I think that’s one of the reasons I stopped reading as much high fantasy and favored the urban fantasy books more.
There are a few series out there that I think you would really enjoy without so much of the sexism:
– The Hero series by Moira J. Moore
– Just about anything high fantasy by Patricia Briggs (I highly recommend the Raven Duology, the Aralorn books, and The Hob’s Bargain)
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Oh I know what you mean with the historical aspect…but tbh, I don't know if it's fair! Originally, that's what I thought too, buuuut, if we can add in dragons! and magic! and new cultures! and new religions! and original clothing! Then WHYYYYY do we have to stick with sexism?! It's like everyone can imagine all these wonderful creations..but not a world without sexism. *cries* I hope it doesn't turn me off the genre, but it's a struggle right now. 0-0
Oooh I like this post! And really, I agree with it. I mean, most of the fantasy books with female heroines involve some plot where the heroine needs to prove herself among men, or to break free of some oppression, etc. Like you said, if it is historical, well, then that is just how it was. Nothing we can do to change that, except move forward. But in a totally fictional world? Oh yes, I would LOVE to see some different types of societies! I think the whole sexist culture has been such a part of society for so long now that it almost seems like we can’t fathom a time without it. Even now, when women are certainly more equal than we’ve ever been in modern times, we aren’t actually equal at all yet. The pay gap, the lack of women in high ranking positions, the overtly sexual culture that only seems to insist that women need to cater to, I could go on for days. What I am saying is… none of us has grown up any differently. So to create a world unlike one we know would be hard- but totally doable! And I think that is a challenge that authors should definitely take! If you can invent entire worlds, magic, secret societies, and who knows what else… you can invent worlds where the whole plot doesn’t just revolve around a woman’s struggle. Okay, I will stop now. Basically yes to this post.
Also, book shopping > clothes shopping. That is all.
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IT WOULD TOTALLY BE DOABLE!! *flails* And how hard is it to imagine a world without gender inequality, if we can add in dragons and weird magic-wielding magicians?! COME ON NOW.
I think The Grisha Trilogy does a good job of not doing this, but as for the others, no. I mean, Artemis Fowl is one of my favorite fantasy books that comes to mind and one of the big points in the story is that Holly gets pushed around cuz she’s the girl. 😛 I think part of this might come from the idea that fantasy is kind of perceived as a guy’s genre (DND, video games, etc.) and girls are supposed to like romance and chick flick books (which is bull) and so even if writers try to cater to their female audience the authors are often dudes and I imagine they often think about other dudes, and then never change the expectations.
Which is dumb.
Fiona and Shrek are not in that example…
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Aghh, I hate it when genres are divided up to “girls” vs “boys”. Nooooo. >_< *buries self in sand* But I totally agree, that that's probably the origin of this whole mess. I don't know about the authors always being dudes though! Most of the fantasies I read are by girls! (Well, the YA ones, anyway.x D But let's face it: that's all I read. lol)
You might like The Steerswoman. I felt like the author focused a little too much on world-building a world with powerful women and not enough on the meat of the plot, but then I don’t read a lot of fantasy generally and I know a lot of people who read fantasy have liked the feminist spin of this book.
There’s also Cordelia’s Honor, which is more sci-fi but has a lot of hallmarks of fantasy plus women who are trusted for their fighting capabilities.
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I shall look these up! THANK YOU!
I love this post.
LOVE this post!
Oh, I just said that. . .
Seriously, these are really good questions. And I think you’re right, a lot of fantasy worlds are already sexist. I think it is relatable. It does give the opportunity to talk about current issues in a novel. But I’m kind of with you, can’t society just get over it already? Besides what about those rare societies in history that were dominated by the women? Not that I’m applauding those civilizations, because, hey, the guys experienced what most women had to experience/are experiencing, and that’s not okay either. But you don’t see any of those societies in fantasy, or I haven’t at least.
The balance is good, yes. But what if there was a non-sexist world in a fantasy book? I mean, at least to just say, “Hey, people, ever wonder what a non-sexist society would look like? You know, one that doesn’t even know what the term sexism is? Well, here it is.” Fantasy is the perfect place for that to happen – because anything can happen. I love fantasy.
I’m getting feels over a genre. . . this is weird.
I never thought of this before. But you are so right. This has to happen. It would be so cool and just all around awesome! *rubs hands together* Yes, this will happen.
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ZOMG THANK YOU. xD I was actually nervous about posting this because I wasn't sure if I was being too ranty or illogical, but I think it all came out clearly!?? *gulps* I hope. xD
Ooh this is such an interesting post! I think that a lot of high fantasies deal with real medieval-styled worlds, and, well, let’s face it, back then I’m pretty sure women had little value. So I would actually go as far to say as having sexism in fantasy novels is realistic. (THOUGH COMPLETELY UNFAIR.) In a way I think that’s why I love the A Song of Ice and Fire series so much–there are so many freaking amazing women in there. Even Cersei, who everyone dislikes (and with good reason…) is a such a strong character. So it’s terribly frustrating, but I also do believe it holds a realism that we have to accept in a way. Of course, that holds little water to the way that some women are treated TODAY, but I believe that’s another issue all together. In a way you could look at it from a different perspective and say that fantasy writers are empowering women by giving them such strong roles, like Arya. 🙂 Love this post.
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Ah, I totally know what you mean. And historically YES! But…come on! If we can add in wizards and dragons and magic…why not gender equality?! I wish imaginations would just stretch that bit father and tamper with different theories. :|I LOVE THE GIRLS IN GAME OF THRONES. They're all incredible. And heck yeah, Cersei sucks, but she's still wickedly awesome.
Hmm, I absolutely agree with your observation and it’s one I haven’t paid much attention to. The idea, I think, is that epic fantasy is very often based setting-wise on our own medieval-ish ages. And to be fair, sexism still exists in society. So there is an element of realism in how the ladies — ladylike or otherwise — do have to fight for what they want. But I do agree that it’s sad how sexism is only an issue when the PoV is female, when many social justice activists are pointing out how sexism affects everyone. SO. I’d say that the way representation is framed can be more representative, if that makes any sense.
But at the same time, even though I think it’s important to reflect what’s happening in real life, epic fantasy is one of the genres with the most escapism. And it would be cool to have one or two series that have a society where equality is the status quo, and deals with other issues instead. On the whole, though, I’d rather have it acknowledged than ignored.
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YES I TOTALLY AGREE!! And escapism is important, and it'd be nice to just dissolve into a non-sexist fantasy world once in a while. I get why it's still “a thing”, but, if we can magic in trolls and giants, why not gender equality? There are SO many other issues out there. I feel like racism and sexism get the most mileage, but yeah, some variations would be nice.
I’m glad you brought this subject up!
In my opinion, I think novels showing how women have to fight for their right is really a good thing. Women’s right is an issue in almost all societies, independent from one another, so I think it’s very likely that it should be a problem en fantasy worlds too. It’s like that in far from every fantasy book, but I think the reason sexism is such a big part of those novels is because the authors find it important to shine light upon the fact that women should fight for their rights, even in the real world.
It’s a very important subject, and a really good blog post!
I totally see what you mean…but I gotta admit, if there's an epic fantasy book by a dude's perspective, it'll focus on different issues! So why can't it be the same for girls?! >_< I still think it's an important issue and very real/poignant in the REAL world, so adding it into books makes complete sense. *nods*
This is a really interesting issue and I’m very glad that you brought it up. I’d also like to preface this comment by saying that I’m a male (just in case that has relevance for some reason). Anyway, I’m a huge fan of epic fantasy and I think that it’s a great genre. However, there is definitely a lot of sexism in it (99% is a tad exaggerated but I’m guessing that was the point). To address Game Of Thrones first, I think that it’s the world that’s sexist, not the writer. Seeing as Westeros is modelled off medieval Europe, which wasn’t exactly known for gender equality, there is a lot of sexism present in the society. However, Martin fills the world with tonnes of great, strong female characters like Cersei and Arya, which shows, to me anyway, that he’s not a sexist turd and that he can actually write a decent female character. Also, as another commenter pointed out, Dorne, part of the world, is basically run by women (you won’t get to it until about the fourth book though). Seeing as many fantasy novels are modelled after feudal Europe, for some reason (I don’t know why), this means that the sexism present in feudal Europe is transferred to their fictional world. Most of the time the author themselves isn’t actually sexist, the world just is. I don’t really see this as a negative because, as a result of this, there are plenty of great female characters, especially in modern fantasy. Books like The First Law trilogy, anything by Brandon Sanderson, A Game Of Thrones and The Malazan Book Of The Fallen are filled with great female characters. If you want recommendations I’ll gladly give you some, although they’ll basically all be adult fantasy seeing as I don’t read as much YA as I would like.
However, if you look back at older fantasy, a fair few of the authors were incapable of writing actual female characters. The best example of this is The Wheel Of Time. It’s written by a guy called Robert Jordan (who actually died a couple of years ago before the series was over but whatever) and I think all of his female characters spend their time A) arguing over boys B) thinking about boys C) being the ultimate clichéd bitches (pardon my French) or D) …, yeah that’s all they do really. I think this shows how much the genre has moved on. There are far more good female characters nowadays, thankfully.
Anyway, I hope this point added something to the debate and I’ll definitely follow your blog from now on!
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OH OH I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU!! And that's something I really tried to outline in my post (I probs didn't emphasis it enough, though?) but absolutely: the writers aren't sexist, it's the WORLDS that are sexist. *nods* I think the writers are empowering women totally wonderfully and it gladdens my soul. :') And, true, so many fantasy books are modelled of feudal Europe so that makes sense why they go for the historical feel of sexism. And the more newer fantasies do better with equality. I still would like to read some fantasy books where equality isn't an issue though. There are SO many issues out there, so why is sexism the one that's 99% used in epic fantasies?!
I love fantasy genre and you are right, women usually have to prove themselves more often than not in them. But to be honest, it never bothered me. For some reason, I have fantasy novels connected with historical rather than contemporary or future world and sexism kind of belongs to the history… I hope I make sense 🙂
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You totally make sense!! And I do understand why it's like this…but I just feel like we could have some more variation?! Like if there's an adventure by the POV of a dude, we don't have to deal with sexism. Which saddens me that it's such a big deal whenever there's a female narrator. 🙁
I think you might enjoy N.K. Jemisin’s fantasy! Also possibly Jo Walton’s Sulien books.
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I'll look them up!!
Nope, I don’t think fantasies should automatically be set in sexist worlds. If an alternative isn’t even suggested in the fantasy world, how can we expect change in the REAL one? I’d love to see authors play around with this! I never finished the Game of Thrones series, in part because the sexism was so disgusting.
If you haven’t already read it, you might try the Seven Realms series by Cinda Williams Chima, which features a matriarchal society.
My question is: Why do epic fantasy series historically have such horrifically ugly covers?!
I'll definitely look up the Seven Realms series then. YAY. I need good recommendations. And I totally agree….I feel like it's a real big hole in literature that epic fantasies feel they HAVE to follow a sexist train of thought. (Although I don't think the writers are sexist,I think they just continually build their worlds like that, and it's a shame.)HAHA. I don't know about the covers! >_< Some are pretty. I loooove the Winner's Curse cover! (But some are just awful. Not a fan of Grave Mercy's cover. -_-)
Newer fantasies, especially YA, definitely have nicer covers. I guess I was thinking more the older, often less well-known fantasies. I was at a used books store with a massive fantasy/sci-fi section a couple weeks ago, and I was blown away at how ugly the covers were! Haha. Take Mercedes Lackey, for example. (https://www.google.com/search?q=mercedes+lackey&biw=1353&bih=724&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=FeMnVYmPOIq5ggTCwYKwBw&sqi=2&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg#tbm=isch&q=mercedes+lackey+books&revid=1563344131) I’ve only read one of her books (didn’t like it, actually), but the covers don’t exactly make me want to pick them up and hug them, you know? Or this book: https://www.goodreads.com/book/photo/1203856.Another_Fine_Myth
Speaking of fantasies, have you read Isobelle Carmody? I got the first book in her Legendsong trilogy in Australia back in 2004, and I loved it. BUT I CAN’T FIND THE REST IN THE US 🙁 🙁 🙁 Some libraries are finally starting to have books from her Obernewtyn series, although they’re releasing at a snail’s pace here, but I guess Legendsong just didn’t catch on. Looks like I need another trip to Australia, haha.
I don’t think I’m a big fantasy reader at all but I get this! Mulan did it because it was back in history but considering we’re in the 21st century, it would make a lot of sense if things were changed. YEEEESSSS? YESSSSSS?
Also, something that really bugs me is the occurance of “breeding houses” and rape in these high fantasies. I’ve read like three [in a row] where the girl is touched and people make comments on “how she’s lucky to not be in a breeding house.” Some actually show a few girls there. Like, why? First, it’s horribly cliche and crazy enough, not every fantasy has to have the same world. Second, like you said, it’s HORRIBLY sexist. UGH.
You know what? Someone should write a story where the world is like the Amazonian Women. Lots to talk about there [also the morbid stuff *shudders*]
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It'd be nice to THINK we've progressed since Mulan. Right? RIGHT????!! *flops like a jellyflsh* Maybe we haven't, apparently, since all girls in fantasy books have to prove themselves. *sigh* Ugh, omg, I hate reading about rape so so much and too true, I just finished Grave Mercy which basically starts out with a rape scene. 0_0
This feminist post makes me so happy Cait. Urban fantasy is a genre that I love very much because of all the kick ass chicks in it, that are already allowed to be kick ass without having to prove themselves all the time.
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THANK YOU, JEANN. It's generated some incredible discussion too. And I'm trying to think up intelligent replies to everyone. HAHA. IM DYING. XD lol I would like to read more kickass girls who just…kickass without having everyone fall over in shock that they can. -_-
Interesting and important discussion! First off, SEXISM ISN’T COOL. IT’S NOT OKAY AND, WHILE MORE AND MORE PEOPLE ARE BEGINNING TO QUESTION THE SOCIETY AND CALLING BANNERS, WE STILL HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO. Now I’m not big on fantasy. However, I did read the first 3 books of A Song of Ice and Fire, which you mentioned, and this much I know. Yes, Arya is a pretty excellent sample here. But I also think that there are incredibly strong women in this brutal world of our dear friend George. Khaleesi is one, and (I don’t want to spoil you) but as you go along, you’ll see that she doesn’t let the men around her reign her. She takes advice but ultimately she takes actions for herself. And let’s admit it, she’s a badass with a capital “A.” Other strongly written ladies, along with Arya and Khaleesi, are Lady Catelyn, Cersei, Sansa, Margaery and Brienne, to name a few. But still, yes, they’re all subjects to sexism so deeply rooted it seems invincible.
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WE DEFINITELY HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO, I COMPLETELY AGREE AND LOVE THIS COMMENT. THANK YOU, SHELUMIEL. Oh yes and I definitely think the GoT books aren't sexist…so much as set in a sexist world. I already love all the girl characters. ^_^ Well, except Sansa, but I feel sorry for her, aaaand I'm told she gets better as the series goes. XD
I totally agree with this!
I mean, most of the books that I’ve read are by women, so a lot of the times it’s not too terrible. For example, I just read A Darker Shade of Magic, and the main female character is wonderfully independent and strong!
However, I definitely noticed the same thing in A Game of Thrones: not even just with Arya, but Sansa. Sansa’s a remarkable weak female character, and she really clings to the prince and acts like a weak ladybug.
AGHHHHHHHHHHHH why can’t people just accept that women could very well rule the world without lifting a finger and just give up on the notion that there are differences so large between the two genders that there are enormous gender wage gaps and other irritating problems?
One day, we’ll rule the world. And then “meninists” will be our slaves *rubs hands together evilly*
(But all kidding aside, this was a great discussion. Thank you for bringing this to the attention of the people!)
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A “weak ladybug” *SNORTS* That is SO PERFECT. Gah. Sansa is not floating my boat at all, at this point. -_- I'm nearly done with GoT and meeeeeh. She's frustrating me beyond belief. I can't BELIEVE she just “Forgot” about Arya. How do you forget about your little sister?! As much as my sisters bother me, I would never forget about them when a castle went BOOM with bloodshed and civil war. I'M NEARLY FINISHED BOOK 1 AND THE TENSION IS HIGH.
I don’t read a lot of fantasy, but the ones I’ve read so far, I’ve been lucky that most have been set more so in modern day and females seem to be on the same par with male characters. I think most books tend to reflect society though, either how we live or how we think we should live, usually in gender assigned roles. It’s probably a fine line that authors need to walk, especially with historical fantasy or fantasy that strips back to simpler times, where women were the homemakers and men the hunters who provided so I’m sure back in ye olde’ times, a girl wielding a sword was unheard of. Personally, I love a girl who bucks the trend and carves her own path, and I think part of the allure of a strong heroine is to see and experience her doing it.
I’m an equal opportunist. Equality for everyone regardless of sex, race, creed, ability or religion rather than calling myself a feminist. I’ll be taking note the next time I pick up a fantasy though, I can’t recall having noticed it before.
Wonderful topic smushy and so eloquently said <3
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Oh YES. I totally get this. Particularly from a historical view. I mean, it is historically accurate to put the girls in the kitchen….even though that sucks. But then, I wonder, because these same epic fantasies add in NEW religions and lores and backstories and customs and traditions…so they don't actually stick to “historical accuracey” in much of anything except sexism.I misread and thought you said “regardless of sex, race, SPEED…” and I was sitting here nodding and thinking, “Yes, even us slow pathetic runners should have a good chance.” XD lol
This is something that really bothers me too! Actually, I always recommend the Lumatere Chronicles as an example of fantasy where the women are considered strong and capable without having to prove themselves (maybe if you read Froi of the Exiles, you’ll see that more). I’d also recommend Sanderson’s Stormlight Archive because it also features women in power who are badass and awesome without having to prove it.
It just bothers me that in most fantasy novels, women are just there to be objectified or be part of the usual “virgin and whore” trope. I get really excited about fantasy that does portray women in a positive light, so I’ve been trying to feature them in my DiverSFFy posts. I’ve been really bad about updating that recently, but I will get on that!
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AHHH I need to finish the Lumatere Chronicles. xD I loved Finnikin so so much. And yes, I need to read Froi and I'll totally take your word for this. And I would looooove to try Sanderson, the only reason I haven't is I have to pay for reserves at my library, which sucks. -_- But it's on my to-do list!
My personal opinion… I think most epic fantasy is set in a medieval-type setting, and they’re trying to be true-ish to the time period? Could that be a thing…? *shrug*
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I agree that they still manage to empower women and that a lot of them start out with women in “lesser” or helpless type positions, but I think part of that is the time period. A lot of fantasy, and many of what you mentioned, involve monarchies and swords, and imply that this was from a day and age hundreds of years prior to our modern feminist age. To be historically accurate, the women couldn’t all come out swinging, with society on their side, and the odds in their favor. It was a struggle for women back then, why should fictional tales of these heroine be any different if it was set in the same day and age?
I do get that you may be saying that we need more books not set in time periods and situations like that, but would they be the same? I know for me, part of what I like about them is the feeling of the time period and some of the stuff that comes with it. You make a good point, and have me itching to write some fantasy!
Great post and I totally get what you mean. 🙂
Oh I definitely see what you mean. And it is true from a historical standpoint….but then, these fantasies add in so many new customs and magic and religions that are NOT historically accurate….why stick to sexism too?! It doesn't seem balanced to me. :O
This is a great topic and I get exactly where you’re coming from! There are a lot of sexist world’s in fantasy. To me, I guess I put this problem down to the fact that most of these worlds are set in places that resemble periods of time from the past, usually they are medieval or Viking-like etc, often they’re set in periods with little technology and have yet to experience an industrial revolution (especially if there’s magic involved, it’s like the magic replaces the technology!) and in these times there were BIG issues with women’s rights. But at the same time, it can definitely get same-ey and it would be really good if we got some books that took a different approach. HOW ABOUT A BOOK WHERE THE WOMEN ARE IN CHARGE AND THE MEN SUFFER WITH THE SEXISM?!?! Now that could be an interesting twist!
Great post, Cait! I so agree on this, but not only in fantasy. So many novels are sexist and feature female characters and/or protagonists who aren’t seen as worth as much as the males, and that’s ridiculous. I am over it. It does seem to be quite a strong theme in fantasy, though, I agree; I read fantasy because I adore stepping into different worlds where things are better and worse and magical and brilliantly intriguing. I want to want to live in these worlds, but if I’m shot down for being born a woman? Well that’s not fair. I want to be a majestic fighter in my fantasy novel world and not anything else. I want to be respected and equal. So it riles me a lot, yes. Kind of why I adore Throne of Glass and His Dark Materials so much. They show female characters who are strong and won’t be held back, who aren’t really held back at all for their gender. People either don’t consider it or are too afraid of the consequences of thinking/uttering such nonsense.
Fantastic post- I shout in eagerness for less sexism in books- and, really, life- too! Xx
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It's not really worth “escaping into a book” when the world is sucky for our gender, right? -_- I love Throne of Glass and I thought it was pretty much feministic…but Celaena is the only girl assassin and in the trials no one sees her as a threat. *sighs* So I guess ToG still kiiinda fits this. BUT I STILL LOVE IT SO WHATEVER. XD
I think it goes back to JRR Tolkien, in Lord of The Rings there only a handful of female characters mentioned, none of them are main characters and have only small significance and impact on the plot, in his book The Hobbit, there are no female characters at all. While I will acknowledge that in his later works, there are prominent female characters, however my suspicions as to why there is either very little female presence or no female characters at all in Tolkien’s works is because he didn’t know how to write them or wasn’t comfortable writing them. Male Fantasy authors have continued this literary trend.
There’s also the fact that the Fantasy and Science Fiction genres are dominated by white men and women and people belonging to ethnic minority groups aren’t given the same access to book reviews. There’s also a poor stereotype within the Publishing community that male readers won’t read books with female protagonists but female readers will read protagonists of either gender, so the trend of male protagonists (and poorly written female side-characters) continues to dominate. In the publisher’s eyes, if it isn’t broken, why fix it? Perpetuating social expectations and gender stereotypes earns them more money.
Links:
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2011/feb/04/rese… http://theconversation.com/the-stella-count-is-in…
I totally agree that all these trends are definitely in place. Doesn't make them right, though. 🙁 SADNESS. But yes, I think a lot of the gender inequality does stem from Tolken although that was 60 years ago, so I'm hoping we're starting to move on. 🙁 I don't know about Adult fantasy, but I know a LOT of YA fantasy is written by women!
I agree, these trends shouldn’t be seen as acceptable, and while I understand what you mean about YA authors being female, I have often found a lot of internal sexism with regards to the YA genre as a whole, especially when Female Protagonists are involved
As a huge fantasy reader, this is something that bothers me a lot (and goes into a lot more than sexism). By definition fantasy just means not real. (Ok I’m not actually looking up the definition of fantasy. But I’m guessing this is what it is). So if has such a broad range of possibilities….why are all the worlds set up like medieval western Europe? By doing so we’re stuck in worlds where everyone is white, and men are valued more than women. But it’s fantasy…if there is ANYTHING we’re going to read where all the social constructs are different – this would be it! It’s not real, so it can be set ANYWHERE! Where are my African or South American based fantasies? Where are my fantasies where being white is a minority? Where are my fantasies where a character can be black or hispanic or woman or trans (or really where is there a fantasy with a trans character. Other than Tamora Pierce because she is THE. BEST.) characters where it’s just part of their identity, but it doesn’t effect their place in society? I’m with you – I want more fantasy where people as seen as equal and are badass and it’s not their gender identity, sexual preferences, or skin color that is challenging them. Why can’t the hard thing their doing be stabbing dragons in the face? Or you know teaming up with the evil dragon and conquering world. Because that sounds more fun actually.
I’m not saying that I dislike the fantasy novels I’m reading right now, because I don’t. They can be fantastic and I think there’s definitely a need for fantasy novels that do show oppression in its various forms. I’m just saying that it shouldn’t be the setting for 98% of novels that are set in arguably the genre with the most potential for variety in its literal settings and social constructs. (Excepting sci-fi, that might actually be more varied. I do think it is more successful at being varied)
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YESSS YESS I SO AGREE WTIH YOU. ZOMG I COULD SCREAM. Sometimes Fantasy is just really frustrating because it feels locked in a time warp. And if we can have dragons and magic, why is it such an imagination stretch to add in gender equality?
I’ve honestly never thought about this topic, but I think it’s because most of these books are set in Medieval-style worlds, and in Medieval times that’s the way women were treated. The authors just start with what they know.
Personally, I like seeing us as a gender overcome adversity this way, but it /would/ be nice to see a few books in which we start off on the same level as guys. It’d be cool to see where that sort of story went.
Alexa
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It is true, and it is kind of historically accurate, right? Buuuut, if we can add in dragons and magic, why is it such a stretch of the imagination to add in gender equality?! >_<
Haha, that is true. Well, I’m actually working on a medieval fantasy, so maybe I’ll try to work that in. it would definitely make it unique.
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I love Kestrel forever, and I don’t know how I’m going to survive until the last book. God, does Marie love torturing her readers.
And I do hate how sexism is sort of a given in books, but I still really appreciate Eon. I loved the Chinese setting, and I loved that Eon eventually grew into her power. Sadly, though, I do agree. The problem with fantasy is that so many of them are set in sexist worlds, and it shouldn’t be so. We’ve got great fantasy novels set in sexist worlds written decades back. Let’s set a new precedent.
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I AM LITERALLY DYING WHILE I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN THERE. I think I gave it 4-stars, but to be honest? I'm going to change my rating to 5-stars because it's one of my totally most-loved books this year. XD
I feel this in my soul. I was thinking about this recently, but about historical fiction – every historical fiction book I remember reading for school was either about a boy saving the day or a girl who was enslaved/kidnapped/intended to be sacrificed. As much as I understand an author’s desire to be realistic, but I want to read ONE BOOK where women are celebrated and not oppressed/abused and it’s TOTALLY NORMAL.
JUST ONE, BOOK WORLD. YOU HAVE ONE JOB.
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HA. YES I HEAR YA. I feel like in Historical Fiction it makes more sense because….historical accuracy and all that. But it SUCKS. And that's half the reason why I don't read historical fiction a lot anymore, because after a while it's just…grating on the nerves? ARGH. I just have had enough. 🙁
@Cait YES. I feel like sexism is really prominent in fantasy in general, not just in plotlines. I remember someone talking about how the Hobbit by J.R.R Tolkien is a great book, but there are literally no prominent female characters in the book. Not to call J.R.R sexist as that probably wasn’t his intention, but I never realized that and it made me kinda sad.
I rarely read historical fiction outside of school. Even then, most of what I read either takes place in the sixties or so (when ~female empowerment~ was becoming a thing) or it’s an American Girl book (which, come to think of it, those books talked more about equal rights than I realized).
We could use a fantasy book of hardcore magical ladies with unicorns and dragons. To whoever writes that book, I will read the heck out of it.
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I’m 48 years old and have read a large amount of fantasy over the decades. There is a lot of sexism in fantasy novels and it does bother me. I love fantasy though, so I started writing my own fantasy novel. And then started rewriting my own fantasy novel because I was disappointed that I, a staunch feminist, was letting tired old tropes sneak into my plot lines. I will continue to work on my novel and exorcise it of the sexism I’ve absorbed just by being a woman in a sexist society. I will refine my novel until it becomes the work I really want it to be. And my female characters will be truly strong–not straw women. They will be the role models I wish I had.
Thanks for stopping by, Marie! This was an amazing comment and I’m so happy you’ve come to the same conclusion that we need more fantasy without all the sexism. <3